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Kyle Katarn Standards (Dark Forces era)
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Merc_with_a_Bryar (Sam Falco)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Kyle Katarn Standards (Dark Forces era) Reply with quote

So I've been considering this for awhile now, and I was wondering if there was any merit to trying to go for a Dark Forces version of Kyle Katarn.

So; Kyle in the first game is rarely seen in person, except for a few fleeting moments throughout the game. The two times we see him up close, he is speaking to Mon Mothma in a briefing room, the first time getting his mission for the game, the second time being promoted and given the Star of Alderaan. In these scenes, he is wearing a brown jacket atop some kind of chest armor, but little else of him can be seen.

Originally, I thought this was supposed to be the same long, dark-colored duster he ends up wearing in the live action portions of Dark Forces II, but after doing some research, I found that in Jedi Outcast, an alternate skin of Dark Forces Kyle has him wearing a short brown jacket and chest armor combo, which matches with the bits we see in Dark Forces. Additionally, in the New Jedi Order comic series, which takes place later, after Kyle has become a Jedi (and grown a beard), the short jacket makes a return, indicating that it is indeed a canon costume piece for him (within Legends canon of course). Additionally, the outfit features khaki cargo pants, and a pair of tall boots, which lines up with his appearance in most other media he physically appears in.

The only discrepancy is that the belt shown in the Jedi Outcast alternate skin resembles his Jedi Outcast/New Jedi Order belt, but that is simply a case of requiring the same belt as the game's current character model, so the game mechanics can match up with the appearance of the character, and his accessories. Furthermore, the belt shown in Jedi Outcast matches the belt style seen in the New Jedi Order comic, rather than the one seen in Dark Forces II, meaning this was a belt that Kyle exclusively wore from Jedi Outcast on, and his double-layer belt from Dark Forces II is supposed to be the same belt from the first Dark Forces.

The belt issue is also proven further in Dark Forces, as the only other time we see Kyle in the game is a shot from behind, while he's speaking to a hologram of Jabba aboard his yacht, about to be thrown into a pit. In this scene, he has had his jacket taken away by his captors, revealing the clothing underneath is, in fact, apparently the same one (shirt, gauntlets, cargo pants, double layered belt) he wears in Dark Forces II, where we see him in person a great deal.

Dark Forces (briefing room):


Jedi Outcast (Dark Forces alternate skin):




New Jedi Order Comic:


Dark Forces (Jabba confrontation):


Dark Forces II:


So taking all of this into account, and looking at other Star Wars media for Rebel Alliance style clothing, I put together a mock-up of what Kyle's costume should look like in live-action form. This is also supported by new Canon info from Rogue One, where we see Intelligence officers like Kyle wearing jackets and khaki, cargo-style pants tucked into boots. This makes sense, as Rogue One was obviously influenced by Dark Forces, and takes place in the exact same time period.



Obviously for costume standards, tweaks would be made to this outfit to more closely match the one shown in-game, this is intended as a general mock-up to give an idea of what the style SHOULD be for Kyle from this era. I plan to submit it with this info, I just wanted to see if this sounds sufficient before I go any further, so any help would be appreciated.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun project, great start. I am curious though about the white armour. Will you be adjusting that (colour, rivets, etc.) to match references or what did you have in mind?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well my thought is that, yes, it should be gray to match the look, but for the rivets, I think it could go one of two ways: one, rivets because... well, rivets, haha. Or two, we have seen the Rebel Alliance use repainted Stormtrooper chest armor without the rivets for their commando units, and various other agents or cell units, such as in Return of the Jedi, Rogue One, Rebels, etc.. Kyle is definitely one of those types of units, and is a former Stormtrooper, so it could be that it was intended to be Stormtrooper chest armor all along, and the cosmetic differences could just be poor 90's artwork, which wouldn't be the first instance of Stormtrooper armor being drawn wrong lol.

I'm okay with either rivets or no rivets, as they both make sense within universe, and it is a matter of translating artwork to live action, so there's some wiggle room, but I believe the armor should definitely be gray in the final product, so as to be faithful to the design and color scheme.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I did a retooling of the outfit a bit, and ended up making a gray chest armor piece to demonstrate the alternative to the Stormtrooper chest armor.
















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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is certainly closer.

I guess this depends on if this is for you or to be RL approved.

If for you do what you think makes the most sense, go for it.

If for the RL it needs to be based on visual references, have 2+ and front and back. (would need the rivets).

Either way have fun with it, and go Kyle.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah! Love Kyle Katarn facts haha.

But yeah, heard. This is my first time trying to do a new set of standards, so I'm still figuring out how it all works, what's required, etc.

I am hoping for approval for this so I can have more trooping options for Kyle, so given what you have said, I suppose rivets it is haha. Luckily, it will be easy enough to add them. Having more experience with this stuff, obviously you're opinion is and has been very valuable, so I appreciate the insight. Hopefully I can get approval for this.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good. From one Corran to Kyle, best of luck with it. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EU represent, brother.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merc_with_a_Bryar wrote:
EU represent, brother.


For sure. Wink


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One question I have for you is that you are submitting this costume as an Alliance Officer.

I am not now, nor have I ever been someone who reads the comics.

That being said, you have stated that Kyle Katarn in this particular costume is an "Intelligence Agent".

An "agent" is generally a Rebel Supporter and not necessarily an "officer". So, this version is both an "agent" and, I am guessing he is still a Jedi.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question Phyllis. This is from the Dark Forces game. Kyle isn't a Jedi yet here, more special ops. (that happened in sequels (Jedi Knight, etc).

In the original storyline he got the Death Star plans. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ionicdesign wrote:
Good question Phyllis. This is from the Dark Forces game. Kyle isn't a Jedi yet here, more special ops. (that happened in sequels (Jedi Knight, etc).

In the original storyline he got the Death Star plans. Wink


My guess is that this costume should be either classified as "Rebel Supporters" or even possibly "Fringe".
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyle was given an official military rank by the Alliance though, and according to the first game, his induction into the Alliance is a bit of a controversy due to his time spent as an agent for hire, as well as his time spent as a Stormtrooper. He begins the game as a Captain, basically like Cassian Andor, then he is promoted to Commander at the end for destroying the Dark Trooper project.

Soldiers salute him, and/or call him sir throughout the series as well, so I feel like he is part of the Alliance proper. Whether it's in Alliance Commanders or part of RAID or something is up for debate, but he's definitely a ranked soldier, not just an outside agent.

Think of it like this: James Bond is a secret agent, but he is an official member of British Secret Service, and holds an actual Military rank.
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Captain, Rebellion/New Republic Intelligence
Home Base: Ra Kura (Florida)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the crawl, etc he's a Merc at this point. Didn't the rank come latter?

I would agree with Phyllis that supporter or Fringe works better for this iteration.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically yes, but crawl comes before the first mission, where he steals the Death Star plans. From the second mission on, he's referred to as Captain by Mon Mothma, so the rank comes very early in the game, and in later games he is referred to as Captain, so he clearly got promoted from Commander either AT the end of the game, or sometime soon after.

Also I just realized I misspoke before; Kyle begins as a Commander, and is promoted to Captain at the end of the game, rather than the opposite way I phrased it in previous posts in this thread. My bad on that one.
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