Forum and Costume Controls

   FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  medals.php?sid=5d4a2c26c533086d186ac4b8cf437016Medals   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in

       
REMINDER: Do not change your e-mail address yourself. Please read this first for why.

'Unreasonable' standards
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> General Discussion -> Rebel Rumblings
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dbuck (david buckley)
Endor Base XO
Endor Base XO


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 834

Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about bases that have detachments judging their own member’s submissions for those categories?

In many cases those of us in those detachments have already walked the submission through the creation process and in my case, has seen most submissions in person. All approvals get a CC to the proper judge(s) for review and any questions or problems go back to the detachment leader to handle, in an effort to create a local hands on process that hopefully reduces the ‘screw this’ result that some denials create.
_________________
If I knew what I was doing, it wouldn't be called research.

Einstein

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
LaV317 (LaVonne)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 466
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leia wrote:
Personally, I think we need to end the practice of approving costumes before a standard is approved. If the first person doing the costume could start a thread with proof of all the points and start a standards discussion, that way if the judges have any info that everyone else doesn't know about can bring it up then, not after someone has completed a costume.


I agree.
_________________
Costuming Site: http://lavcostumingjournal.blogspot.com
TPM Black Invasion Gown (complete)
Bespin Escape Leia (complete)
ROTJ Leia (complete)
TFA General Leia (complete)
Senatorial Leia (in progress)
Ceremonial Leia (in progress)
AOTC Jamilla (90%)
AOTC Corde' (in progress)
Mara Jade (501st Approved)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ritin Kornas ()
Helvetica Base CO
Helvetica Base CO


Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 453
Location: Switzerland
Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

longshot7014 wrote:
We must make sure our quality of costumes remain high as well as using them a vehicle for community service and charity. Honestly, this goes hand in hand.
--Bill

Hi Bill,

I think nobody put that to a doubt. However, we don't agree on what is "high" Wink Because for me "high" is not meaning "perfect" or "as near as perfection given the knowledge of the whole rebel legion", but it seems it means this for other people Wink
_________________
CO Rebel Legion Helvetica Base (serving Switzerland)
Member of the RL Galactic Senate Council
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CaptSolo77 (Brian)
Mos Eisley Base XO
Mos Eisley Base  XO


Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1102
Location: Tucson
Medals: 1 (View more...)
Troopers Helping Troopers (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Another concern I have is what is the criteria being judged on. The 501st has specific, well written standards (for most of their costumes) that costumes are judged on. As long as the costume meets the standard, it is approved - I'm a former GML and did that job for a few years.

Here in the RL, things are a little more "open" and "loose". While we do have standards, they are not written out to the detail they should, and are vague and general in most cases. This makes it VERY difficult for someone building a costume. One LCJ may interpret it one way, and another would see it differently. "Brown Boots" for example, can be interpreted many different ways. People building costumes for our Legion should be able to use the CRL as a checklist to make sure it is up to standard. There should be very little in terms of ambiguity, or "open to interpretation."


I think we need to be a little careful here. I totally understand where this is coming from, but I'm afraid in some cases the pendulum has swung WAY to far in terms of detail in the Standards. (The Standards for Rey, for example, are like a 3-page treatise with paragraphs of description. If I were a newbie, I would totally put off by stuff like that). This has happened because those writing the standards have tried to eliminate the "it's not in the Standards" argument.

What I do think we're missing is photos as part of the Standards. If I remember correctly, the 501st includes a photo along with a brief description of each required costume element. I think we could benefit greatly from doing something like that.
_________________


"I may not be Han Solo, but I play him in real life."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ritin Kornas ()
Helvetica Base CO
Helvetica Base CO


Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 453
Location: Switzerland
Medals: None

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptSolo77 wrote:


I think we need to be a little careful here. I totally understand where this is coming from, but I'm afraid in some cases the pendulum has swung WAY to far in terms of detail in the Standards. (The Standards for Rey, for example, are like a 3-page treatise with paragraphs of description. If I were a newbie, I would totally put off by stuff like that). This has happened because those writing the standards have tried to eliminate the "it's not in the Standards" argument.

What I do think we're missing is photos as part of the Standards. If I remember correctly, the 501st includes a photo along with a brief description of each required costume element. I think we could benefit greatly from doing something like that.


Some people disagree for the pics like the 501st does, and I agree with them partly. Just because the parts in the 501st CRL are always fan made and never as such a perfect reference. The problem is then it emphasise the aspect "we don't care of what your stuff indicate, we've done the research for you, just follow what we say" and it propagate errors.
A good example is the Endor Trooper helmet. 8 stripes in the back, which are debated to be painted or indented. 90% of the helmets I think have indents, while I never saw any reference indicating it cristal clearly. So I made my model like that because indeed some ref pics seemed to show that.
And the error would have propagated if I didn't find a pic from a book where you see with 0 doubt possible it's just paint. So...
You can propagate wrong stuff like that :s


But for the standard, as I said, there is a third solution to keep as much details in them for people willing to match them, but then also get not a standard but a requirement Smile
_________________
CO Rebel Legion Helvetica Base (serving Switzerland)
Member of the RL Galactic Senate Council
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Swfangirl ()
Legion Costume Judge
Legion Costume Judge


Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Posts: 290

Medals: 9 (View more...)
Celebration Anaheim (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with a lot of points here along with a few I want to add.

I feel costumes should not be reviewed/approved before the reference material is released. In part because trailers and pre release material can be misleading, so creating a character and submitting it to the good guys before knowing if the character is truly good is a bit premature. Also, until the material comes out, it’s hard to determine other factors, like which detachment the character should fall under.

I wish there was an easier/simpler way for the initial people creating a costume to help formulate the standards, and making that part of the requirements for a costume to be first in the legion. There is the ability to draft standards now, but it is not as easy as it could be, and varies from detachment to detachment. I really feel there needs to be reference pics, even if it’s not images of a person in the legion, but an accessible online image from the movie. When judges/applicants look at different reference pics it leads to confusion.

Finally, this may seem silly, but I wish we could change the word from ‘reject’. Sometimes the costume needs a complete overhaul and truly will never be approved as it is and needs to be completely redone, other time it could be something minor and the applicant just ran out of time. It could be named more like something labeled ‘reapply’ or ‘returned’. Costumes that have hundreds of hours of work and sometimes thousands of dollars in value being reduced to a single word of ‘rejected’ can be demoralizing.

I agree, if you aren’t happy with how things work, we should come together to make it better.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neimhaille ()
Naboo Outpost CO
Naboo Outpost CO


Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 1230

Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbuck wrote:
How about bases that have detachments judging their own member’s submissions for those categories?

In many cases those of us in those detachments have already walked the submission through the creation process and in my case, has seen most submissions in person. All approvals get a CC to the proper judge(s) for review and any questions or problems go back to the detachment leader to handle, in an effort to create a local hands on process that hopefully reduces the ‘screw this’ result that some denials create.


Okay, this I can get on board with.

Right now there is kind of a reactionary "toss the lot" feeling, and I get it. But the reality is there is much better oversight than is being used right now.
With Detachments we already have the main forums for sharing progress and getting feedback. These are just not being used enough. I think every application I have commented on, and every new member in my base, has not posted to the forums before submitting applications. Most of my base members do not use the forums at all unless I post a link to an update.

I know how much of a PITA it is to post. I have two projects that I try and update over here but coding up my posts takes that bit extra time. Ditto making sure I haven't been logged out while doing so.

As annoying and difficult it is to use this part of the forums, please bear in mind the application queue is even more outdated. Most of the time we are working with plain text. We do not have the ability to embed an image in a comment. Most of the time images do not show up. So when you have say 10 senatorial Leias you wind up relying on third party options to be able to do the job or spend a good hour or two every day to click links within links.

I have had my own rejection. I felt I was not really able to to respond very easily. I would have really liked to be able to use inline images to illustrate my reply and you can't guarantee that works with email. So I just wound up saying too hard, I have other priorities.

I also totally understand the frustration of requirements shifting. This though is vital. Right now we can print fabrics and 3D pieces and do so much more to get closer than ever to accuracy. My very first costume to the legion could never pass now.

I think the problem right now is with the new films coming out so fast we are shifting that requirement process much faster than ever before.

I truly think Detachments are the way to go. I post my own WIP in the appropriate forums because I know that pooled understanding is the only way to combat this. Or at least get everyone on the same page as quickly. But it is so much work I don't update as often as I really would like to.
_________________
facebook | website | tumblr | dA

Armourer, sculptor, seamstress, tailor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Volund Starfire (Jason Ellenburg)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 1323
Location: Newberg, Oregon
Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m currently going through the costume building stage, so have not been approved/rejected for a costume in quite a while. I think it was literally a decade ago when I was rejected for having a pewter-gray RFT helmet rather than a bright white one. However, my issue is with the WIP process that I have witnessed.

I have two costume WIPs up right now. The first is for Old Man Luke (which had to be reposted because it became a catch-all for R&D for some reason) and the second is for Master Skywalker from the TFA/TLJ flashbacks. The issue is that no LCJs have posted in my WIPs and only one other members and an officer.

I asked a couple of questions regarding the costume and the only responses I have received are from members and from an officer (both of which are generally negative). In a nut shell, I was told that the costume wasn’t approvable because there weren’t enough references to it in the movies (what kind of boots does Old Ben Kenobi wear?). However, I could alter it from the screen-used costume shot in the filming BTS, and use a leather boot, to bring it along to Generic Jedi standards to get it approved.

When the CRLs state that starting a WIP thread will help in getting costume approved, and asking questions in the thread will get LCJ answers, it doesn’t always happen. I’ve had a number of costumes I’ve given up building because questions I asked were never answered. It could be demoralizing for new costumers to be ignored before even submitting.
_________________


Last edited by Volund Starfire (Jason Ellenburg) on Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Obi Anne (Johanna Nybelius)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1626

Medals: 2 (View more...)
Philippines Typhon Relief (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have followed this thread and there are a couple of things I agree with.

First of all I agree that we shouldn't admit costumes until there is a standard for them. The LCJs or the detachment should work with the person submitting a new to the legion costume until there is a standard, and then they can be admitted. Yes that would mean a bit more work for the person submitting the costume, but on the other hand that person is probably the one that knows the source material best and what the standards should be.

Second I agree with adding photos to the standards would go a long way in making them clearer. I totally understand the problem with using fan-made photos, since it's easy that they are taken as perfect and then continues to be imitated by new costumers. Maybe a compromise would be to have a full-body photo of the original costume, but then add photos of the details that are fanmade and up to standards.

Also when reading the standards a lot of them are confusing. I took a quick look at the orange pilot standard, since I know that I was confused when I was working on it. I'm aware that there has been an issue of "but it's not in the standards, then it doesn't mean that it can't be this way", but I think it would be easier to simply say that "this is what the standards say, no variation". One of the issues I have with the rebel pilot standard is that it has a lot of exact measurements, but around them you also have a lot of "approximately", meaning that it opens up to interpretations on what approximately actually means. Since most standards also have the line that the standards are only guidelines and that the costume must match the references, well in the end that leaves it all up to the individual person judging the photo no matter how good the standard is.

If we could cut down on the text in the standards and make them more of a check list, then I think we would come a long way in making it easier for people to submit costumes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ritin Kornas ()
Helvetica Base CO
Helvetica Base CO


Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 453
Location: Switzerland
Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neimhaille wrote:

I also totally understand the frustration of requirements shifting. This though is vital. Right now we can print fabrics and 3D pieces and do so much more to get closer than ever to accuracy. My very first costume to the legion could never pass now.


Once again I'll bring the point of the budget. It's not because it's possible to do it... that it means everyone can afford it.
I'm lucky enough to be able to get a 3D printer, because given how much cosplay I do I considered it to be an investment worth it, but I know that many people just can't. And professional 3D printing company just have abusive prices...

It's not because technology for something exists that it means everyone can go for it... Plus I don't see why we should denigrate "old technics" like some people tend to do, that if you go old school it's not worth validation.

I'll take the example of the mando mercs refusing that armor are foam built. I don't see why, if well done, you can't see it !


Also, regarding 3D print, the problem is that most people don't have next to the printer, the ability to 3D model things. And most of the models on internet have inaccuracies. It would actually help if we could get a library of "pre approved" 3D models, with the condition of course that they are finished well (no print lines, good surface finish, painting accurate...). In the RLGS we started a collection of useful models, and a 3D model of the month thing, but we can't claim them as pre approved even if I try to check the modeling with few people including some judges. :S
_________________
CO Rebel Legion Helvetica Base (serving Switzerland)
Member of the RL Galactic Senate Council
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ibejedi (Heather Tanner)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 82
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lipstkadvntr wrote:
(Regarding TFA General Leia)
While I agreed with most of the fixes and understand CRL's and standards are created/agreed upon by a group of people, what is the president when research proves the CRL incorrect?


THIS. Even this long after TFA has come out -- and there were very clear reference photos out there even before the movie was released, the standard for this costume still incorrectly reads:
"Screen accurate ring with silver wire and two blue stones, worn on the ring finger of the right hand."

The ring is not silver. It is clearly gold/gold metal in every single shot that exists out there. I have pointed it out so someone a long time ago, but it still reads as incorrect. Granted, I was actually approved the first time w/no changes needed, and with a gold ring....but things like this can be very frustrating. What do you do if the standard is wrong? Or in some cases, it's impossible to decide for sure what is screen accurate for an element (due to conflicting reference photos). OK, rant over -- this has just irked me for quite some time Smile

Again, while I haven't experienced issues personally yet, it seems there does need to be some reiteration of universal standards, and also quality control to ensure that correct information is out there.

I know I was so intimidated for the first few months I was reading everything, especially the standards. I agree with Brian and others about having photos with the standard like the 501st does. Many of us are visual people, and seeing a photo/photos (preferably the best example of an approved costume) to go along with the text would be incredibly helpful. Honestly, when I read standards on the 501st, I felt more confident in many ways that I'd successfully be able to put a costume together. than when I read some standards here.

And as a couple of others have said, yes we should be as high quality as possible, and as screen accurate as possible, but use some discretion when it comes to extremely minor issues that are not readily apparent on film or in most common images, but only found when doing the most intensive screen by screen analysis of a costume. The argument could be made, for example, for General Leia, that to be perfectly accurate -- her boots are "brown with a wedge heel, mid calf height with a suede upper and smooth leather band at the top, and smooth leather on the toe/top of foot, that connects to twice laced around smooth leather straps with buckles on the side." But that has all been discerned from a bunch of research of every single screenshot, and I only saw the buckles for sure in the Carrie Fisher memorial issue of People, that had a new behind the scenes photo not seen before. Expecting every single detail of that, for this costume is a bit too extreme. Brown boots with a flat or wedge heel and the correct height are accurate to what most see when seeing the character on film.

And some characters definitely call for higher degrees of "nitpicky" details than others. Rey or Senatorial Leia are good examples of this. They are iconic and images are everywhere, so we have to strive for the very best representation. But if say, Leia's Hoth boots are just a bit too grey vs. white -- does that kill the costume? I think it doesn't.

Anyway, sorry for the dissertation (I really didn't plan on that) -- and with that being said - I'd be more than happy to help out with the work of trying to improve the process and procedures of approval, as well as modernizing/updating standards and other such work. I may still be a relative newcomer here...but I'd love to help make the Legion as accessible as it can be for those who want to join us in our passion for Star Wars and costuming.
_________________
Heather "ibejedi"
Now or Never Creations and Cosplay: https://www.facebook.com/nowornever2016
----
“Stay afraid, but do it anyway. What's important is the action. You don't have to wait to be confident. Just do it and eventually the confidence will follow.” - Carrie Fisher
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ritin Kornas ()
Helvetica Base CO
Helvetica Base CO


Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 453
Location: Switzerland
Medals: None

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ibejedi wrote:

THIS. Even this long after TFA has come out -- and there were very clear reference photos out there even before the movie was released, the standard for this costume still incorrectly reads:
"Screen accurate ring with silver wire and two blue stones, worn on the ring finger of the right hand."

The ring is not silver. It is clearly gold/gold metal in every single shot that exists out there.

It's actually funny you mention that because we had lots of debate on that in the Galactic Senate for the blue dress. For me it was clearly neither gold or silver, but something in between, more likely an alloy like white gold, some kind of brass, or alpaca.
In ended up being like that in the standard :
Quote:
Screen accurate silver, brass, or light gold wire ring with two dark blue round flat stones, worn on the right hand ring finger.


That's a problem when you have same character in multiple categories and/or similar pieces reused from costume to costume, you have inconsistencies like that.

It would be reduced if it would be mandatory for all detachment of the legion to allow for cross detachment belonging of the costume... specially as it make sense for lots of characters.




Quote:
Many of us are visual people, and seeing a photo/photos (preferably the best example of an approved costume) to go along with the text would be incredibly helpful.

Well I already mentioned my concerns if it's fan made objects. However to double what you say, being visual or not, reference pictures directly next to the standard would help a lot for non native english speakers...





Hey question to the LCJ talking about that !
Do we have some statistics on validation ? Or at least feelings.
Like how many time in average someone as to submit before to be approved.
Rejection rate for native and non native speakers or things like that. By category of costume would be awesome too Very Happy Troopers, Pilots, jedi, dignitaries, etc.
_________________
CO Rebel Legion Helvetica Base (serving Switzerland)
Member of the RL Galactic Senate Council
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Granny-Wan (Marie Cannon)
Legion Costume Judge
Legion Costume Judge


Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 5054
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
Medals: 3 (View more...)
Website Supporter (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lipstkadvntr wrote:
Ritin Kornas wrote:
Quote:
I appreciate that you've researched the costume, but we have done research, too.


Just to point out that this kind of things should not happen. Specially as charter is clear on that that is a member has reference material indicated something else clearly, then it has to be taken into consideration.

It is the same thing for the story of the costume with no standards needing 2 years... Which BTW should have gone to the LMO instead of staying at judge level in that case Wink


I would also like to point out that I had no idea that going to the LMO was an option as it was never stated in my emails from the judge. I was just informed of this ability in the last few days by my base command upon receiving fixes on a new submission that I also feel has an incorrect CRL and I have research to back it up.


Every acceptance or denial email has the following at the bottom:

Quote:
If you are unhappy with this judgement then you are entitled to appeal to the Legion Membership Officer (LMO) at enlistment@rebellegion.com.


This is hard coded in and judges cannot remove it.

Also, an artist's rendition does not ,and should not, take precedence over a screen cap from the movie in which the costume appears.
_________________
Legion Costume Judge: Alliance and Rebel Officers, Jedi
Former Alphabet Soup: DCO/DXO, BXO/BMO/BPRO, TM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
thebrighton (Gareth Collier)
Active Legion Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 23
Location: East Sussex
Medals: None

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been a number of references here to the 501st and how their costume standards work and how the WIP process here does or doesn't work.
Being a member of the UK Garrison of the 501st the process does appear more slick resulting in very few rejections. Obviously the workings of Garrisons worldwide varies due to size but I'll just explain how a costume is cleared in the UKG.
Firstly the CRL's are very clear with little ambiguity although, admittedly, some does exist. When someone starts a costume they have to create a WIP for the build process. Luckily we are a large Garrison and there are 'Armourers' for each costume and it is their job to guide the builder through to completion. They will advise on accuracy, give tips and, ultimately, give the ok to put the costume in for clearance. Therefore when it reaches the GML it should be up to standard and sail through and they have the WIP to refer to if necessary. Occasionally the GML will highlight something but they have the experience and it's why they're the GML.
The most important bit though is that only the armourer can quote on the WIP to ensure the costume is constructed to the highest standard.
With the RL as there is no requirement for a WIP someone can just put together a costume on their own with their only guidance being their interpretation of the costume standard hence a high rejection rate. Another problem can be created when they do create a WIP. Being in the UK you can start a WIP on the Elstree Base forum as well as here and then anybody can chip in with advice etc. Much of the help given is good but I have seen stacks of poor or conflicting advice which, again, can result in a rejection as you have many interpretations of the standards.
Difficult to organise on a worldwide basis but surely the requirement of a WIP would help reduce mistakes and could be referred to by the LRJ and it would be better still if there were dedicated Armourers who are working to a set standard to guide builders rather than a free for all of varying levels of advice.
With regard to rejections I've had a couple from RL but after responding with evidence to back up my build they were subsequently cleared with no alterations.
_________________
RL - Tusken Raider
RL - Bantha Rider
RL - RFT
RL - Endor Commando
RL - X Wing Pilot
501st - Stormtrooper, Snowtrooper, Tusken, Weequay,Biker Scout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Granny-Wan (Marie Cannon)
Legion Costume Judge
Legion Costume Judge


Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 5054
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
Medals: 3 (View more...)
Celebration Anaheim (Amount: 1)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebrighton wrote:
With the RL as there is no requirement for a WIP someone can just put together a costume on their own with their only guidance being their interpretation of the costume standard hence a high rejection rate.


If everyone did a WIP the judging process would go smoother on both sides.

I am often shocked at how many people don't even realize we have standards.

I see a lot of applications where the submitter registered here the same day they submitted and have zero posts on our forums.

One applicant even told me how she'd posted and gotten no response, and no help, but she'd never posted at all. Neutral
_________________
Legion Costume Judge: Alliance and Rebel Officers, Jedi
Former Alphabet Soup: DCO/DXO, BXO/BMO/BPRO, TM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Rebel Legion Forum Index -> General Discussion -> Rebel Rumblings All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum
The Rebel Legion is a worldwide Star Wars costuming organization comprised of and operated by Star Wars fans. While not sponsored by Lucasfilm Ltd., it is Lucasfilm's preferred volunteer Rebel costuming group. Star Wars, its characters, costumes, and all associated items are the intellectual property of Lucasfilm. © 2017 Lucasfilm Ltd. & ™ All rights reserved. Used under authorization.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group