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'Pilot Leia aka Splinter of the Mind's Eye Dark Horse Comics
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Jillian Hyperion (Jill Wells)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: 'Pilot Leia aka Splinter of the Mind's Eye Dark Horse Comics Reply with quote

A couple variations of this costume are being submitted this week to Pilot judges, following a nod from the commanding officers of the RLSC and the RLGS. I am pleased to begin the discussion for a Pilot Leia costume.

***UPDATE: THIS COSTUME WILL FALL UNDER SENATORIAL PER JUDGE TEAM DISCUSSION***



Costume proposal details:

This costume is based on Dark Horse Comics mid 90s 4-volume release of Splinter of the Mind's Eye, a 1978 novel sequel to Star Wars (A New Hope). It is set in the same time as ANH and Rogue One.

Costume review:

Shirt - fitted turtleneck style shirt with high collar. I chose an athletic shirt with some bodice stitching to look more comic booky. It should not be shiny but a spandex blend is helpful for a good fit. Collar should not be the modern half-turtlenecks which are shorter but the full old school collar.

Pants - Pilot coverall style pants without the top/jacket. One rectangular flap pocket on front of each thigh like pilot costume. No other other pockets High-waisted 80s style. Covered in mud.
**I am going to sew the hip pockets closed this week on these pants I found after a few months of searching, and move the cargo pocket to the front of the legs and remove the studs on the pocket flaps.

I am showing weathering/mud on the pants in my trial run of this costume, however, upon review of the story, these pants should be heavily clay covered/sticky or cracked looking weathering. Pants are inked simply in comic pages and appear brown with squiggly lines, though likely Rebel pilot style like the cover art. Boots appear gray in pages and gray and dirty on cover. Likely so she and Luke would not overlap in the small frames and because page art is always simpler than cover art, we see a difference in colors, as is typical in this medium. I understand the Marvel Leia standard has FOUR variations to cover the differences in the costume as drawn in different frames, for example.

*I suggest a brown or an orange variation on the pants for this costume standard, and HEAVILY weathered. Since we are hoping to categorize her as a pilot per the nods from RLGS and the RLSC command officers, I am leaning towards the look of ANH rebel pilots as much as possible.

Boots- The boots follow the Hoth Leia boots standard, but also with heavy weathering like the pants for this costume. I made new spats for my approved Hoth Leia boots so that I could make them appear dirty, and also put real dirt on the boots to wear them out.
RL Hoth Leia boots standard:
a. Medium gray leather or non-shiny vinyl, 1”-3” / 2.5 cm – 7.5 cm wedge-heel, knee-high boots, with three slightly darker gray suede 1” / 2.5 cm wide straps.

b. Worn with the jumpsuit pants legs tucked in.

c. Both open boot shafts with a tongue (Hoth Base version) or plain boots shafts with a plain inside zip (Falcon version) are approvable.

Gloves- appear to be pilot gauntlet gloves. They appear black on the cover and brown on the pages. Again, variation with chosen pants.

Belt- matches a black ROTJ Luke belt with a weathered buckle and visible studs with a black rectangular pouch. Except buckle appears rectangular with rounded corners.

Holster- matches Endor Commando/Briefing Room Leia and is worn on the left side. However, the character is right-handed, as is evident in comic frames, so it is a cross draw holster with the handle of her DDC Defender facing forward.

Hair- is the ANH two large buns on either side of head hairstyle. The hair may appear disheveled and a strand coming loose at her forehead is visible.
RL hair standard:
Hair is parted in or near the center and pulled into large buns that cover the ears. Buns are twisted, not braided. No braided hairpieces, wig with braided buns or fake hair “ear-muffs” with headband. Naturally occurring hair colors only (brown hair color recommended); no bangs; if a wig or hair pieces are used, they must be of a high quality so that they appear like real hair. Natural hair and parted wigs should have a neat, straight part in back. If a non-parted wig is used, the hair must be neatly pulled across the back of the wig without bald spots.

I plan to modify pants pockets and more heavily weather pants.

I have build, trial run and reference pics in this album and will update with pics of pocket mod work.

http://tinypic.com/a/ayww7p/2









Thanks for visiting this. The RLSC and Pilot judge staff looks forward to your feedback.
P.S. There was a Splinter novel cover Leia approved about 10 years ago.[/img]
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Last edited by Jillian Hyperion (Jill Wells) on Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RogueLeader1995 (Giulia Andriulo)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion both can be okay, because you can clearly see it in the cover and in the pages that there are two different colors.
Moreover, we also need to consider that for comics in those days, they used really cheap colors and paper that could possibly modify them.
Also with briefing room Leia some people submit with lighter pants color and darker pants color. Sometimes we see light blue pants and some other times
really blue pants but they both are approved if the costume is okay Very Happy

Just my opinion Smile
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JediJainaSolo (Sarah Townsend)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This all looks fantastic, and I agree on all points about the colors. With comics and even the films, we have to account for variance with color. Especially with older print media, we need to take the ink into account. Precedent is orange for flight suits, so my preference would be that, but as the pants do appear brown in the comic, it can an option,as long as it's weathered like the cover, and the text suggests.
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LeiaAurora ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respectfully, I disagree on the colors. In only ONE image are her pants orange, the cover. The pants are brown in every single other reference. Allowing a color that clearly isn't consistent doesn't make sense.

In the example above, Endor pants for Leia are accepted in light blue and a darker blue and sometimes even a gray. Yes, gray and blue are similar colors. Brown and orange are not.

I would also add in the following points to the standard up for discussion as it is not specific to reference as shown below.

Hair
Leia is wearing her hair in her traditional ANH style as seen in this reference shot.


Blaster
Blaster is the same blaster she uses at the beginning of "ANH" which is her Defender.


Boots
Boots are gray Millenium Falcon boots. I triple checked reference and for sure they are not the Hoth variant but the Falcon variant. Here are shots showing this. I found it interesting that only the cover art showed the Hoth variant but everywhere inside the comic it showed the Falcon variant. Again, in only one example is she wearing the Hoth variant.



Belt and accessories
Leia is wearing a simple black belt with a silver, rectangular buckle. On either side of the buckle are silver rivets. On her right side she is wearing a holster similar to her Endor holster but with a flap to close it that has one silver rivet in the center to close it.



Top
Top is a mock turtleneck with 3/4 sleeves. It is not a full turtleneck as you can see from photos below.



Pants
The pants are brown or I would even say dark beige and high waisted. They have a fly. There is a pocket flap on each leg halfway between the thigh and knee. They appear similar in style to cargo pants and not coveralls.





Gloves and greeblie
Brown fitted gloves with a cuff. There is a small square greeblie with 2 small circles and a smaller rectangle on it. The circles have a smaller black circle inside of them and the rectangle has a smaller rectangle in it as well. The greeblie is worn on the right glove cuff.


In addition, Leia is seen wearing a brown backpack through a portion of the frames in the comic. I am thinking this can be an "additional accessory" for this costume as she doesn't wear it throughout but that is, of course, up for discussion.
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Jillian Hyperion (Jill Wells)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to second mention of the backpack. I would also like that as an optional item.

I am going to continue to recommend that the pants have this two color variation in any standard proposal for this costume. In this ANH/R1 era the pilots are wearing these same coveralls. (Unless they only give flight pants to boys.)

The boots I am not sure how you determine which Hoth costume boot variation is shown in the page frames. This would be a good example of using the cover as a clearer reference. I am not sure why the cover would not be used as one of the reference photos, as it is the biggest, clearest, most detailed and closest thing to realistic as you get with a comic book. The pilot costume would probably not have the same variation as promo pics for a Leia royalty costume. It would be spats, like Luke's. The overall look of this is like Luke's - pants, shoes, belt, gloves.

I also would like to see more weathering on the pants and boots, as it is descriptively shown that Leia sinks in the mud to her ribs and has to be pulled out, and it's kind of a gag, because, you know, the Princess got all dirty. That was the whole element that made it this costume. Nothing in Star Wars is clean and new.

Thank you everyone for beginning this discussion today.
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LeiaAurora ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post exiting the cockpit she is clean so I would argue she could be clean or dirty depending and that could be optional. This is the beginning of the standard writing process so I'm sure others will chime in on this accordingly but I think clean/dirty is up to the costumer. If they wear the backpack (suggested as optional) then I would agree they should be dirty/weathered.

Now I'm not a judge but I have submitted (and been approved with) 4 costumes with no standards and when that is the case, the judges go by the references. You have (1) reference where it shows pale orange pants (compare to Luke's bright orange on the cover) and the Hoth boots. Everywhere else they are brown and the shoes are not drawn again with the side flaps wrapping around the front.

While I can concede they may just be poorly drawn (the boots) and not detailed enough to confirm one way or the other, I still do not agree that one drawing should be given that much sway over an entire costume. There is simply not enough reference for it to be something that should be used.

Look at Jaina Solo in her pilot with her tank top. There are so many of us who would love to do that costume but we have one image. Sure, we can guess at what the rest of it looks like but without matching references from all sides, it is not an approved costume.

You have an image from the cover, yes. It's a great one. But nowhere else is this repeated so while I would say it would be nice for it to be multiple colors, I just don't see how it can be.

dunno
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OddViking (Colin Adams)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the weathering of the pants. The fact that she is in mud, and the cover clearly shows mud, that should be part of the look. Tatooine Sand troopers have very dirty white armor, and that is part of their specific look. Old Obi wan should have a mended tunic, Tatooine Luke should have a chipped-paint belt buckle, and it seems this Leia should have muddy pants. Plus, I like when Star Wars stuff feels more 'lived-in" than clean.
As far as the color goes, I agree that print was more limited, but the cover was usually full color (as in this case) on most of Dark Horse's comics. The cover should carry more weight, because there were no color limitations there. My guess is that they went with brown inside because she is in mud so early, and they didn't want to have to color the mud spatter pattern (a lot of corners like that were cut in the day).
She seems like she is wearing rebellion pilot pants, and those pilot pants are orange.
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LeiaAurora ()
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m sorry but where are you seeing that these are pilot pants? If you are talking about the OT pilot pants, that would have many more pockets. Hers clearly do not. There are no pockets anywhere except to the flaps on the thighs. Luke’s does have the pockets as you can see in other reference pictures that I can post if you like. There is a clear distinction between the two pairs of pants.
I think they did this on purpose to differentiate between her and Luke.
Plus these pants Are Clearly High waisted and have a fly. I could be wrong as I am not familiar with the OT pilot suits but I don’t think they have ones that look like that.
My other question is why would we go off of one picture where the pants are orange went all the others are brown? Again, this is differentiating between Luke and Leia and I believe that’s why they did it.
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instarlight (Anya)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still stand by the logic that the pants are supposed to resemble BDU pants or, with a film reference Luke's Dagobah pants, specifically when he takes of the top with the high waisted pant fit and the placement of the pockets. The pants to do not have enough pockets to resemble a flight suit, nor do any of the panels of art show that it is an X-Wing flight suit rolled down.

If we are are to use the cover as reference, this further proves that the pants are indeed brown, rather then an orange. Here are the colors that I pulled from it, picking two that were the lightest in range, sans weathering, and the darkest. I also drew lines on the image to show where the colors were pulled from, when isolated onto a white background they are both in the brown range.

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Rogue516 (Michelle Waxman)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a basic opinion here. I realize we strive for accuracy with source material and consistency & uniformity throughout the Legion. This is an extremely popular character so I would think any new CRL would be very popular and a lot of members would embrace and want to make this costume. How do we feel about different color schemes coming up with this costume on wearers that is inconsistent? Perhaps that is a key consideration in this as well. Just my two cents.
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Jillian Hyperion (Jill Wells)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogue516 wrote:
Just a basic opinion here. I realize we strive for accuracy with source material and consistency & uniformity throughout the Legion. This is an extremely popular character so I would think any new CRL would be very popular and a lot of members would embrace and want to make this costume. How do we feel about different color schemes coming up with this costume on wearers that is inconsistent? Perhaps that is a key consideration in this as well. Just my two cents.


I am good including variations but not ranges, because I think that could get too inconsistent, I agree. There is always debate about the interpretation of comic book squares and Star Wars colors debates are frequent as well.

In the case of the movies we strive to learn about the fabric used exactly if there are different opinions on reference pics shades. In print media, I can only look to context. The princess was being irritable and then got drenched in mud

My recommendation for judging is to decide on each variation (gloves are brown too, if pants are brown, for example), but the degree of weathering should be the same for both, because of context.

Also this works both ways, the wrist comm is not visible in the cover art reference pic, but it is in the comic book. She did not change clothes, so I would recommend that the orange pants variation also require the wrist comm.

The standard proposal would have to outline all of this so I am glad for all of this feedback and build work. It has already brought up more details.
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LeiaAurora ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m not quite sure why you are fighting so hard for this orange color. As you can see in the post above, it is clearly not orange. If you want to be specific, it is a brown/orange color but it is clearly not as orange as an X-Wing flight suit.
Compare the color of Luke’s pants on the cover to Leia’s. Clearly not the same color and Leia’s has the brown while Luke’s does not.

We have all the reference we need in the comic itself. The greeblie is shown Multiple Times including the cover. Check it again. I’ve studied these references over the last 4 days quite extensively. I can put together a color chart for reference if needed.

While I agree that there can be a clean version and a weathered version of this costume, I still do not agree with you on the pants being orange or that we can neglect to add details in the costume that are clearly shown on multiple sources.

It may seem like extra work to get these little details right but I believe that is what makes us the Rebel Legion. We pay attention to these details and strive to get them as accurate as possible. Ignoring the rivets on the belt or wearing black gloves instead of brown (as they are clearly brown in all reference including the cover photo which you keep referencing) would make the costume less than it is and we would be remiss to neglect them.

I’ll see if I can get some more eyes on this to help produce the standard. My stance will always be that we should match as closely as possible to what we have and We have plenty of reference for this costume IN the book itself.
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Jillian Hyperion (Jill Wells)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. Please continue to contribute here towards standard proposals for the detachment to review as this is the process.

Let's try to keep away from multiple posts repeating the same comments so that the membership interested may all have a chance to contribute.

We have been collaborating for four days, yes. But I have been searching for pieces for this costume for a couple of months, also. I appreciate your fast and diligent work.
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LeiaAurora ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a comment is posted and I have a rebuttal to it, with reference, I will comment on it. That is a right we all have within this group.

This is an open discussion and will constantly have moving debate. It’s how it should be.

You mentioned glove color and pant color and I provided insight on it and my thoughts and observations.

I also stated why I believe we should be as accurate to the source material as possible. Being as accurate as possible (within reason) is what makes this group incredible.

No one is negating the work you have put in over these months on your costume. I am, however, stating that there are things that need to be changed to match reference based on what you proposed for the standard. Smile
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Verity_Who ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to respectfully disagree, the pants are clearly not flightsuit-orange. They are definitely a brown/beige based on all the reference pictures and the colours pulled by Anya. Even comparing to the cover they are not orange (look at Luke’s pants, those are orange). Having a range in color between orange and brown is going to have vastly different looking Leia’s, isn’t the CRL supposed to help us look similar in bringing to life this character?

While the RL wants to be inclusive, we must not forget that at least to some extent we need to keep details and this costume accurate. Leia is such a popular and loved character, if this costume is going to be approvable and worn we must try to have accuracy.
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