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'Pilot Leia aka Splinter of the Mind's Eye Dark Horse Comics
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LeiaAurora ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Banshee Leader wrote:
I hate to add to the confusion but I don't think that this would classify as a pilot costume. This version of Leia isn't wearing any pilot-related gear at all, I think that it would fall under the Senatorial detachment. This isn't any more of a pilot outfit than Hera's outfit was.


The reason it was thought this could go under "pilots" is that she is clearly seen piloting a ship in 3 different panels. While she is not wearing a standard or traditional flightsuit, she is indeed flying a ship.

Guess that brings the discussion to "What classifies a pilot costume?" IMO, Han and Chewie should both also be pilots but they are in Fringe. Maybe this is a costume that can fit in multiple detachments ie; Royalty and pilots.
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accioveronica (Veronica J)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi! Wow. After going through the thread a few times, I think lots of you made really good points about the colour of the pants. My first thought was that there should be a variant of both the cover and the comic pages. The pant style is just like a flight suit with the rectangular pockets in front of the thighs, except it isn't a full flight suit in that it is missing the top half. Personally, I think context is really important. I tried looking up a summary of what happened (please correct me if I'm wrong), and it looks like she fell in the mud at some point after landing on the planet, and Luke pulled her out of the mud (which is why they change clothes at a later point in the comic). If so, her pants shouldn't be brownish like they are inside the comic when they arrive on the planet when she is sitting on the aircraft if the pants were intended to be orange. However, some of you mentioned the comic's singular tone of the pants to cut down on production time, which could be true... but why would her pants be brown when they land if she hasn't even fallen in the mud yet? This is what makes me think that the pants were intended to be brown.

Still, I do think that the cover art looks like a reeeeally weathered version of flight pants that derive from an OT flight suit. If she fell in the mud, there wouldn't be light weathering, and I assume the base pants would become a shade darker (like most clothes when they get saturated in something wet), which may account for the pants on the cover photo having a slightly brownish tone underneath the heavy weathering.

If the variation is allowed, I would recommend those doing OT flight suit colors to dye the pants a slightly browner shade before heavy weathering since it seems like there is absolutely no OT orange showing through.

EDIT:

I really can't stop looking at this thing! So, I went to Natalie's post and saw she had a link to the actual comic here: https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Star-Wars-Splinter-of-the-Mind-s-Eye/Issue-1?id=98557

And now I can't help but think that the pants were just meant to be a rusty brown. Initially, I thought her outfit was supposed to be like Luke's (same boots and whatnot), but she doesn't even wear a helmet when she's flying. To add to the argument, her black shirt is different from Luke's in that it has longer sleeves and a collar. The fact that her outfit has slight variation from Luke's makes me believe that it's perfectly reasonable that they are simply different coloured pants altogether.

(Also - I'm starting to wonder if the whole "are the pants on the cover supposed to be orange" argument is like the blue/black vs white/gold dress... ha. Because I honestly did see the orange in it! ) Laughing
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Jillian Hyperion (Jill Wells)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha, I never did the blue/black dress thing or got why it was so viral.

I do appreciate what you have contributed here however. I agree that the more you look, the more you shift. When I initially started this costume the only thing I noticed was that they were a shade lighter than Luke's so I tried to find something lighter than my approved Rebel pilot. I really like your idea of rust/browning them up more and then heavy clay mud looking weathering, or just finding a fabric in the first place that fits and weathering that. I understand that she is not dirty before falling in mud but I think the weathering is really part of what makes this recognizable to people who know Splinter. Everyone will recognize hairbuns so yeah it's going to be a Leia.

I also have some feedback on the build thread, but I guess I should make those comments there. The color discussion though - the brown in the build is not really matching even the page frames. I'd also like to see a close up on the pockets. But again, if we are saying they are not pilot pants, then how can we judge them to a pilot costume standard?

This talk is moving us further away from a pilot Leia consideration. Senate/Royal also fits the story context in the era in which this takes place. However, she IS flying a Y-Wing clearly, in her own right in the story, regardless of what she is wearing.
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JEDICHRIST (DELONG.CHRISTOPHE)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good evening,

for several months or years I have been campaigning for an evolution of our detachment to include hero costumes.

The goal is to be able to recognize that characters like jedi "pilots" (ROTS), Hera, Lando (ROTJ) and others can be integrated in our group and in the KJO or other.

I think we should work towards this direction, and this has been taken up in the "questions and answers" section of our BDCO.
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HazardThree (Jon Paulson)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey there everyone, I was asked to chime in here by several parties given that I'd had experience as a RLSC Detachment Commanding Officer and Pilot LCJ for 10 years-ish. Here's what I think applies here (take it for what it's worth, as I've never been a "rib or stitch counter" in uber-detailing a costume.):

1) FIRST OFF ... This is NOT the first time this costume has come up, or been submitted OR BEEN APPROVED. We had a couple instances of this costume being approved in the 10-15 years ago period. Unfortunately it appears most of those costumes have been archived, but I'm searching for any records/photos I might have kept - I believe the member I'm remembering having it was Dingo or Kelldar.

2)The sample art (both exterior and interior) provide enough information to support TWO (2) variants of this costume; an Issue Variant AND a Cover Variant. Especially since the art for both were done by 2 different artists. I'm not sure why there's even argument about this point. Both orange and brown should be fine.

3) In my personal opinion, I always saw her pants as the pilot pants. VERY dirty on the cover, and just a lazy artist/colorist combo on the interior. But ...

4) Colors ARE subjective for a variety of reasons; type of medium used, a person's unique color perceptions, etc. For this reason I'd support the wording of a limited range v.s. a definitive "it HAS to be this." The classic "white or gray" RFT helmet argument, or the usual having trouble nailing any pilot flight suit color are the perfect example of this. Another good example is if you look at the orange background color of this forum page. Not a bright pilot orange, but more of a burnt pumpkin. Still orange, though some people might say it's closer to the tan/brown spectrum.

5) All the other costume details suggestions seem valid with the following points (A) I'd definitely make the backpack optional. And (B) I happen to think both viewpoints of the belt buckle are incorrect. I definitely see the usual RFT hex shape (rectangular buckle with the corners clipped off) in a bunch of panels, but missing the clipped corners in others where the artist was in a hurry.

PLEASE NOTE >> The comic book artists who do ANY kind of pilot costumes ALWAYS cut corners (no pun intended) because of the high degree of details found in pilot costumes. Chest boxes, Leg pockets, Ejection Strapping, and Flak Vests are prime examples of this.

And on another note ... Re: it being a Pilot or Royalty. I'd be open to both options (dual membership, provided that the pants were closer to the standard OT pilot pants, considering the rest of their gear is similar. We always classified membership in RLSC as being for FIGHTER Pilots or Co-Pilots (not freighter pilots, the original Hera, or jedi pilots, etc.) who's primary job is to fly a WARSHIP. Much like Luke's Bespin Outfit and Poe's Brown Jacket Outfit not being a pilot outfit (they're wearing it outside the fighter even though he's a fighter pilot), another character wearing something inside a fighter (that's not a dedicated flightsuit) might not be enough to be purely a RLSC costume.

I hope this information (and my opinion) has been helpful with this. As I said at the beginning, take it or leave it.
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Khazara (Todd Felton)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a nice easy-to-use site where you can read the comic, without any ads or pop-ups.

http://vlcomic.com/read/comic-star-wars-splinter-of-the-mind-s-eye-eng/2#smaller
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LeiaAurora ()
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the input, Jon! You had a lot of great insight and even pointed out things I had missed ie; the buckle,

People have been commenting that the pants are pilot pants vs ESB Luke pants. Here is a side by side comparison just for reference. The only distinction i see is Leia doesn't have a clearly defined pocket on her thighs like Luke does in the film. That could be up to time crunch in the drawing process or on purpose.

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Jillian Hyperion (Jill Wells)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The flaps to nowhere. Laughing
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Kylo Ren (Dawn Bright)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys! I wanted to pop in from a ALMO standpoint.

I generally do not approve separate cover variant CRLs, we certainly have had them but its normally in the case that the costume is on multiple covers. (Dr. Aphra is a good example of that) However This is just one image. We could certainly say the pants are brown or brown orange in the crl though i think thats fine! Smile

I would say the pants are a brownish. With that said most judges wouldn't lose their mind if thats a black brown or a red/orange hue brown. We arent animals we are humans and its ok if its just a shade off in most cases.

Was going to say I have seen this costume approved before however it doesnt have a standard so it does need references. No biggie though we have a ton here and there does seem to be plenty.

Thanks guys.

Dawn
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Blue Banshee Leader (Alex Buirch)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeiaAurora wrote:
Blue Banshee Leader wrote:
I hate to add to the confusion but I don't think that this would classify as a pilot costume. This version of Leia isn't wearing any pilot-related gear at all, I think that it would fall under the Senatorial detachment. This isn't any more of a pilot outfit than Hera's outfit was.


The reason it was thought this could go under "pilots" is that she is clearly seen piloting a ship in 3 different panels. While she is not wearing a standard or traditional flightsuit, she is indeed flying a ship.

Guess that brings the discussion to "What classifies a pilot costume?" IMO, Han and Chewie should both also be pilots but they are in Fringe. Maybe this is a costume that can fit in multiple detachments ie; Royalty and pilots.
I do see what you mean but in the Star Wars universe many people can pilot a ship, but that doesn't make them "pilots", as in pilots regarding the Rebel Legion classification. Pilot costumes generally require "pilot gear"-- that is a helmet, a chestbox, flak vest, so on and so forth, of varying degrees depending on the pilot and reference. That is, it should look like a pilot, be recognized as a pilot, otherwise pretty much any character could be approved as a pilot. If we just went off of classifying a pilot costume based on someone being seen in a cockpit then Han Solo would be an RLSC costume, every version of Luke would be, Dash Rendar, Kyle Katan, Lando Calrissian, Hera Syndulla, Ahsoka Tano, almost every single Jedi, Captain Rex, Garazeb Orrelios, young Anakin Skywalker, so on and so forth. All of those characters and many, many more were seen in a starship cockpit at one point or another but that doesn't make them RLSC costumes.

What makes a RLSC costume is a costume that looks like a pilot, as well as having reference of being a pilot. For example, Iden Versio's Rebel pilot outfit is very different from other Rebel pilot outfits, but she's still clearly represented as a pilot, she's still wearing some pilot gear, and she's depicted throughout the game as being a pilot. This version of Leia, on the other hand, doesn't have any pilot gear at all, nothing that would make her look like a pilot. Really, it looks more like civilian gear, not military issue (though it could be military-issued fatigues).

A Leia that would be perfectly acceptable in the RLSC, as I mentioned before, is the Leia in the stealth X-wing gear, because she's clearly a pilot there, she's in full pilot gear and everything, there's no mistaking that she's a pilot.

So yeah... This just doesn't seem like it would fit in the RLSC, it just doesn't look like it represents a pilot at all. Fringe maybe, but Senatorial seems like the best match. Smile
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Kylo Ren (Dawn Bright)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to comment on the Detachment/judging cartagory this should go under. This is a very unique costume, however I think every single instance of Leia has gone to the Senatorial. (Cept TFA)
I even have a very clearly obvious Jedi Leia in Jedi robes and lightsaber and and when we discussed where it should go it still fell to Senatorial in the end.

I'll bring this up to the judges today and see what they think and get right back to you all.
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Last edited by Kylo Ren (Dawn Bright) on Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, I want to say thank you to Jill. You did a great job working on the standards and your costume is coming along beautifully! I had to laugh when you said "I agree that the more you look, the more you shift" because you are seeing more brown in it and I have been looking at it frequently and now I see more orange in the cover pants. I was coming back on the board to say there is room for variation in the costume but I think Jon summed up my feelings perfectly. I'm excited to see everyone's interpretations of our favorite princess.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all I wanted to update

This custome will fall under senatorial.

Thanks!

Dawn
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Jillian Hyperion (Jill Wells)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RogueWic wrote:
First, I want to say thank you to Jill. You did a great job working on the standards and your costume is coming along beautifully! I had to laugh when you said "I agree that the more you look, the more you shift" because you are seeing more brown in it and I have been looking at it frequently and now I see more orange in the cover pants. I was coming back on the board to say there is room for variation in the costume but I think Jon summed up my feelings perfectly. I'm excited to see everyone's interpretations of our favorite princess.


Thanks very much! I appreciate it. I also liked Jon’s feedback.

I would like to maybe dinge down the brightness of the orange and then weather the pants further. I tried a dye test in coffee and Rit taupe last night. I think I like the coffee unless I try less time in the taupe.


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nerdylowcostplay (Christie)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since it seems like we're voting, I would vote for brown pants, since almost all the pictures are brown. Saying that muddiness gives orange pants a brown color seems odd to me, since her belt, boots and top are clean. On the cover, it looks more like brown pants were splashed with the orange on the ground.

The gloves look reddish brown to me.

Finally, I don't honestly understand why she would be classified as a pilot because she flies a ship. Most all of the main characters fly ships, and they are not considered "pilots" because it's not their main job.

Just my two cents.
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