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Endor Gunners- standards update discussion
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Commander Cody (Jason R.)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Endor Gunners- standards update discussion Reply with quote

Members of RAID,

Phyllis was able to scan pictures of the Endor Gunner costume from the latest Return of the Jedi sourcebook. The gaiters used for this costume are the same type of gaiters used on the RotJ Y-Wing pilots. I'm asking the Detachment to discussion and then approve this (small) update to our standards.

The current standard.

Quote:
Endor Gunner



Required:

1. Gray or tan jumpsuit with 4 leg pockets in front and a tabbed closure collar and tabbed closure on sleeves.

OR

Gray jumpsuit with regular buttoned up pointed collar and 4 leg pockets in front.

2. Olive drab military style canvas/strapping belt

3. At least 2 olive drab pouches

4. Endor capped sleeved vest with quilted portion on upper right and slash pockets.

5. Rank badge

6. short gloves (tan, brown, or deerskin)

7. Tan gaiters with a seam down the front, siver strapping at top, and small black triangle to the inner part of gaiters.

8. Black round toe boots or shoes

Optional - must have one for formal

Headset
weathering on capped sleeved vest.
Endor headgear

Standards written by Schph Gochi 11/1/11
Posted by LMO 11/3/11


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Proposed edit.

Summary: Adding parachute clip to the description of the gaiters. Not a huge edit by any means.

Endor Gunner



Required:

1. Gray or tan jumpsuit with 4 leg pockets in front and a tabbed closure collar and tabbed closure on sleeves.

OR

Gray jumpsuit with regular buttoned up pointed collar and 4 leg pockets in front.

2. Olive drab military style canvas/strapping belt

3. At least 2 olive drab pouches

4. Endor capped sleeved vest with quilted portion on upper right and slash pockets.

5. Rank badge

6. short gloves (tan, brown, or deerskin)

7. Tan gaiters with a seam down the front, (remove silver) strapping at top, and small black parachute clips to the inner part of gaiters.

8. Black round toe boots or shoes

Optional - must have one for formal

Headset
weathering on capped sleeved vest.
Endor headgear


-----------------------------

Why the change?

Phyllis provided the detachment with the following information from The Making of RotJ book.

The gaiters/spats are the same pieces used for the Y-Wing pilots.

Schph Gochi wrote:
look what I found in the new book "The Making of the Return of the Jedi"




This photo does show that MF Gunners were both jumpsuits
and
pants and shirt...
sorry that the photos are not great...
but...
the photos in the book are small...the photos are just Poloroids...and I had to use a magnifying glass to see that photo #2 is indeed pants and a shirt..


also...
the picture shows that the gaiters are the same as a Y-Wing Pilot...


Now, let's discuss! Smile
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bits and pieces and observations from the original discussion re:


Schph Gochi wrote:
The "Making of the Return of the Jedi" provided those poloroid photos of both the Millenium Falcon Gunners and the Y-Wing Pilots....

with both sets of photos on pages facing each other, it became obvious that the gaiters were more or less the same.

I noted further that those parachute buckles did move around a bit....and I believe that is probably because the gaiters shifted when in use or the wearer was not clear how they should be worn (the same thing happened with the Endor Commandos when it came to the gaiters). Sometimes the buckle appears on the side and sometimes it appears more near the front.
again...
just "shifting"?
Early on when I was looking at the Millenium Falcon Gunner gaiters I noted that there was something black at the top of the boot, but in most of the photos I could not tell what it was.

Also, the strapping on the gaiter can be a bit variable. In some photos it appears near the top of the gaiter and sometimes several inches down. Again, I think it was just a matter of who was wearing what pair. I also think that sometimes it was a matter of the pants blousing over the top of the gaiter. There is not a significant difference in the gaiters to believe that they are different from the Y-Wing Pilots gaiters.

Additionally, I can't see Lucasfilm spending money to make another "run" of gaiters that are so very similar. They would be used on characters that were mainly background and no one would be paying attention to what the gaiters looked like.

Since the strapping can be a bit variable, I might suggest using the term "near the top" instead of at the top. This was also something that was discussed when it came to the Y-wing gaiters....some of our Y-wing pilots put the strapping at the top when actually, that strap was down a little bit....

see this reference photo -
the comments on the photo were for Scott Goebel who I made the first pair of Y-Wing gaiters for.



The more I look at the photo of Cracken....the more I realize that his pants are bloused over the top of his gaiters a bit (whether intentional or not) and that covered up the top of the gaiter and made it impossible to see the clip and judge how far down the horizontal "strap" is. Even in the photo of Cracken in your first post (and one of the photos that I relied on for costume information) you can see that the gaiter on his left leg has shifted because the seam down the front is off center.


Very Happy
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G'nott sH'urr (David Campbell)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two issues i find:


The Standard calls for "rank badge" but there are two, one on the left chest and one on the right sleeve cap.

7. Tan gaiters with a seam down the front, (remove silver) strapping at top, and small black parachute clips to the inner part of gaiters.


the promo shot of Cracken show him with the para clips "inboard" but the continuity polariods show them "outboard" on all other characters. Wouldnt the continuity shots be more correct than the promo shot?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Promo" shots are the bane of Judges/GMLs existence in both legions Laughing

"Visual Dictionary" pilot Luke, General Veers, etc.

From a purely practical standpoint, putting anything on the inside of a boot or leg will bump into the other boot or leg when you walk.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrimitiveTodd posted some new Bluray pics on my WIP thread.
You might want to have a look at these:

http://www.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=638933#638933
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, David!

This is from the discussion linked above in David's post.

PrimitiveTodd wrote:
Schph,

Here are a couple images I made from the BlueRay that show the "shirt and pants" on one of the gunners. The final image also shows a Hoth rank badge on the right shoulder!









Schph Gochi wrote:
PrimitiveTodd wrote:
The few screen caps. that I have done, also doesn't seem to show lower pants pockets on the gunner (Cracken) with shirt and pants...can you tell anything with a magnifying glass?


No, I can't really tell conclusively about the pockets even with a magnifying glass. It appears that there are no pockets.These are small and grainy photos and you can't make out much detail at all. The only reason I have surmised that the second photo is of a shirt and pants is that the "shirt" portion looks to be a lighter color than the "pants" portion.
Awing


Is this something we should consider for our standards vision?

RAID staff would like some feedback, so please . . . comment! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would anyone object to adding the option of a tan/gray shirt and pants combination to the requirements?
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commander Cody wrote:
Would anyone object to adding the option of a tan/gray shirt and pants combination to the requirements?


no objection here...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not at all. Ive shown the standard promo pic to a dozen different people who are not familiar with it. Each says they see crream/tan. The action figure has bdu cargo pants even, but thats not seen in any of these new captures.
The turrett gunners clearly have mandarin collars, and everyone in the hallway seems to have classicsplit collars.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dewka wrote:
Not at all. Ive shown the standard promo pic to a dozen different people who are not familiar with it. Each says they see crream/tan. The action figure has bdu cargo pants even, but thats not seen in any of these new captures.
The turrett gunners clearly have mandarin collars, and everyone in the hallway seems to have classicsplit collars.


So the pants/shirt combo should have the classic-type collars while the coveralls have the Mandarin?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commander Cody wrote:


So the pants/shirt combo should have the classic-type collars while the coveralls have the Mandarin?



Gunners clearly have a mandarin/tab collar






while the other guys (Demolotions??) have the classic collars and it almost looks like the shirt zippers up the front?? I don't see buttons:










http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u393/PrimitiveTodd/DSCF2125_zps6fab8075.jpg[/img][/URL]
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and....
I posted this in Dewka's build thread:

Schph Gochi wrote:
so....we may also be seeing two different characters?

The ones in the turret (with jumpsuit)as the "gunners"

and the other ones running around the Falcon (with shirt and pants) as "demolition experts" or "crewman"?

Shocked Shocked


2 different "characters"??

Should there be 2 standards??
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive looked at the photos for a year now,and it has always seemed to me that there were 2 uniforms. Both 'appear' tan on screen bbut we know the cloth was grey. The figure
Has a pointed split collar andno buttons,as does the picture on the side of the card.
Take a good look at the wrists,,,,,,,off white rectangles indicating stiches.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After blowing the picture up, I can faintly see veritical lines. Looks like this is a button-up shirt, but either stitched closed, or velcro added. While there are no Butons in SW, if this is off the shelf, little was done to modify it other than the cuffs with their white stitching rectangle.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like all things on this earth...
there is always an exception...


I give you buttons in the Star Wars Universe - the guys on the left...




Laughing
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