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New standard - Baze Malbus - DISCUSSION
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Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: New standard - Baze Malbus - DISCUSSION Reply with quote

Topic for discussion of proposed costume standard for Baze Malbus:

Quote:
Jumpsuit:
- tan British Nomex style flightsuit
- stitching (12 lines on forearm; 13 lines on biceps)

Sleeves:
- two 2 part cuffs (colors: white-grey, red)
- armor on the left elbow (colors: white-grey)

Trousers:
- red armor on the right knee
- thigh armor on the right side (colors: white-grey) with half circle painted red

Armor:
- shoulder armor (colors: red) with a triangle in the middle and weathered scratch
- armored chest plate
• fitted front and back
• viewed from above, the top part must resemble circle
• a silver line should be “inserted” inside
• 6 oval cutouts on the left side, 2 oval cutouts on the right side
• silver painted circle on the right side
• black com device on the right side with 3 silver buttons and the silver edge
• V-shaped painting on the left side (colors: white; tan)
- ammunition bags (colors: tan)
• split into group of 2 and group of 3 bags
• needs to be filled
• hard parts of ammunition should be connected to top flaps
- repro on the left side

Gloves:
- black gloves
right glove has the pinky finger, the ring finger and the middle finger cut

left glove has the pinky finger, the ring finger, the middle finger cut and the index finger cut
- armor on the hand is similar to the stormtrooper hand armor

Belt:
- made from rough material (color: grey)
- silver buckle
- there should be two boxes on each side (colors: white-grey/tan) and two protruding parts going towards the buckle
- two brown bags/pouches (should not be from leather, but from textile)
Neck
- black, stormtrooper-like neck seal should be used

Back:
- barrel holder - A.L.I.C.E. frame should be used
- red barrel, as accurate as possible - with silver plating, with the front part opened, with huge pipe in the middle, with black parts and with golden ropes around the middle pipe, with cap on top of the barrel
- red “L” shaped pipe with circle cutout in top part
- brown piece of cloth attached and hanging down besides the “L” pipe
- there is charge belt coming out of the barrel

Charge belt:
- 25 pieces of silver flattened rhombuses with 3 oval indentations on each side of each one

Gun:
- its at least 70-80cm long
- in the front there is a re-loader with a flash light
- scope
- charge belt is connected to gun at the bottom part, in front of trigger
- gun has red weathered paint in the middle

Makeup and face:
- scarf on the left cheek, close to the eye
- dirty and greased long hair, dreadlocks on each side

Written by Karel "Margh" Skop, December 2016

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have lots of notes to do so far (mostly for comprehension of the CRL for foreigners or to get precise things) but no time yet to do all that (Will see later in the month). Quite funny in my sens how some parts are really well detailed and some others not ! ^^

Most importants remarks for now :


Sleeves : Stitchings on biceps only on one side.

Back : I don't think we should specify ALICE, first because we can really see the frame so this detail is in my ind irrelevant to be super critic, second because it would be like promoting a brand what we should not do (or else we can specify the brand of belt buckle and so on...) and finally because we can do something close enough with PVC pipes for example.
- I would also precise 5 bumps indented in the L shape pipe, under the round cutout (when I was saying some parts are super detailed and others not).

Jumpsuit : I didn't knew Nomex but according to what I found on google, nomex is not accurate. Therefore we should remove the Nomex mention as it can lead to wrong things. We should better describe it well or if we keep to nomex style, explain well the difference (no zipper on the chest, number of pouches and were...)
- specify weathered jumpsuit ?

"armor" I don't see any mention of the device he has on the belly and which looks a little bit like a hard drive it is shape, rectangle, with circle in it.
- all parts should be weathered

Charge belt :
- would say dark grey metallic more than silver, silver is a really whiter color for me than what is actually on the costume.
- gonna check my videos from CE to recount the number of things,
- 3 ovals indents, the middle one is longer than the others two
- The charge pieces are linked together by 2 hose pipes running thought. Hose pipe should be of a given diameter (we should discuss this diameter, because it will be the base to scale everything, I've seen a couple of builds where the charge belt and ammunition seemed to be so oversized....)
- Front side only as the indent in it ?????

boots : dark brown leather boots, weathered, similar style to stormtrooper boots : elastics on the side and no zipper.
- Jumpsuit goes over the boots and close there with a kind of scratch system.
- Black soles with a small heel.
- We should not require exact same seams
(edit : looking again the second pictures hereafter, It seems the scratch system I thought about is in facts the boots themselves going mid shin with a kind of additional leather "sleeve". The jumpsuit is then just tightened to the ankle with an elastic)

Gun
- heavily weathered
- has some part painted really dark grey, "anthracite" color with some metallic accent.
- has a light bar on the side ? According to thing picture, just on top of charge belt.



make up and face :
- dreadlocks are laced with a light brown leather/suedine like lace
- Honestly I had never noticed on any other picture before the scarf. Specially has it's hidden by hairs most of the time. I don't know if it's really relevant to get this details a great constraint on it, I would more put it as an optional.




In facts, I would like to propose to make a CRL in the rebel pilot style.
For the pilot you have a given number of required elements, and then you have 3 "optional items" from which you only need at least one of the three to be approved formally.
I think we can get the details here the same way, and require only on of them (or two depending on the number of details) to be approved.
I would put in them maybe some of those :
- A.L.I.C.E frame for the back (to get the exact super accurate one).
- the scar on it's face
- the stitching of the arms (not sure this one)
- the light bar of the gun
- super accurate belt buckle ?
- accurate boots in terms of seams, regular one in the same style being enough in my sens.


See you later !

PS : Ya I know, got caught in the fire of action and I've written more details that I anticipated ! Very Happy
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Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for your output ... Smile

Ritin Kornas wrote:
Jumpsuit : I didn't knew Nomex but according to what I found on google, nomex is not accurate. Therefore we should remove the Nomex mention as it can lead to wrong things. We should better describe it well or if we keep to nomex style, explain well the difference (no zipper on the chest, number of pouches and were...)
- specify weathered jumpsuit ?


As I checked, Nomex is one of the most accurate flight suits for this costume build ... of course, there are cheap variations, but those are missing construction stitches ...



Can you please describe, why you think it is not proper style of suit for build? Smile Or which suit you found as suitable?

I am not so much expert, but as I can see, original costume including zipper on chest, it has same number of pouches and same basic stitching ...
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Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ritin Kornas wrote:
"armor" I don't see any mention of the device he has on the belly and which looks a little bit like a hard drive it is shape, rectangle, with circle in it.


As I understand it is this:

Quote:
- repro on the left side


As it is in sort way representing more repo device ... but of course, here we are to tweak proposal Smile

Ritin Kornas wrote:
boots : dark brown leather boots, weathered, similar style to stormtrooper boots : elastics on the side and no zipper.
- Jumpsuit goes over the boots and close there with a kind of scratch system.
- Black soles with a small heel.
- We should not require exact same seams


I think, there is just some mistake as you are describing boots which are belonging to Chirrut. Baze boots are nothing like stormtrooper boots.They have a zipper, there is no elastics on side.




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GoGetterGreg (Greg)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is correct on the boots. They are not the same orca bay boots the troopers are using.

There is a zipper on the INSIDE of them and no elastic present. The jumpsuit seems to be tucked in and a leather type strap covers the tucked area.


Back:
I would specify "ALICE" type frame. This would not specify that the brand is needed for approval, but the same setup as an ALICE frame. If you state ALICE, people will know what to look for. While you may not be able to see the frame in pictures, take it from people that have seen the costume up close, it is an ALICE frame.
The backpack also has a flat top. There is no "nipple" cap so to speak. it should be flat.

Jumpsuit:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/mens-british-military-surplus-flight-coveralls-with-nomex-new?a=1909133

this is the closest suit available. Added stitching for the stitching on the arms is required.


Charge belt:
Dark metallic is more accurate. With the weathering his weapon has, silver would not be dark enough.

make up:
This is a formal costume, therefore needs to be screen accurate. Scar should be present for approval. NOT optional

Keep in mind that this is a face character. There should be no optional items aside from weapons. It would be like allowing Luke to have a red saber because that's what the member could find. Or Princess Leia not having buns because they didn't feel like doing the hair that day.

The details described above are obtainable. There's good enough, and then there's wrong. Lets try to keep face characters as accurate as obtainable.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Initial notes...

For the Jumpsuit, I would say:
- stitching (12 lines on both forearms at wrist; 13 lines on right bicep at elbow).

For the Sleeves I would say:
- faceted armor plate on the left forearm, mounted on the outside edge so as it is still visible from the front (colors: white-grey).

For the Belt, I would say:
- two light brown fabric bags/pouches.
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Blair (Vlastimil Sprta)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoGetterGreg wrote:

Jumpsuit:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/mens-british-military-surplus-flight-coveralls-with-nomex-new?a=1909133

this is the closest suit available. Added stitching for the stitching on the arms is required.


Yes, as they are writing there:

Men's British Military Surplus Flight Coveralls with Nomex



So, as I can see nomex is type of material instead of style, it would be more suitable:

Quote:
tan/khaki british nomex flightsuit

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nomex is a name brand fire retardant fabric made by Dupont.

I have been told it is very hot to wear.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure where you guys are getting your references from, but for the sleeve stitching it's 10 lines on both forearms and 11 lines on the right elbow. These are from multiple sources like the display statues, screen worn costumes, non-screen worn but accurate costumes, visual dictionary, Hot Toys figure.

The belt pouches are from Yugoslavian Army Mess Tin sets.

The belt is a Seat Belt Push Button With Starburst Buckle Bronco 1966-1977 in black/dark grey.

Gloves are black versions of the TFA trooper gloves with the appropriate fingers cut off.



Currently making mine.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoGetterGreg wrote:
Back:
I would specify "ALICE" type frame. This would not specify that the brand is needed for approval, but the same setup as an ALICE frame. If you state ALICE, people will know what to look for. While you may not be able to see the frame in pictures, take it from people that have seen the costume up close, it is an ALICE frame.


Agreed. Further, ALICE (all-purpose lightweight individual carrying equipment) is simply a general military specification, in this case, for a type of pack frame that you attach other stuff to. There were many manufacturers, so it's not a brand name. They're probably one of the easier pieces of ex-military hardware to acquire, all over the world, not just in the US, since they've been used (and adopted) by many militaries, not just ours.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blair wrote:
Ritin Kornas wrote:
"armor" I don't see any mention of the device he has on the belly and which looks a little bit like a hard drive it is shape, rectangle, with circle in it.


As I understand it is this:

Quote:
- repro on the left side


As it is in sort way representing more repo device ... but of course, here we are to tweak proposal Smile


So we should find this a name specific to identify it ^^
By the way... 501st CRL from the following point of view are great : they includes pictures of each part mentioned. Those are pictures of the separate item from fan-made costume. We could however still do this with a reference pictures, isolating the mentioned part in a pictures via darkening the rest of the pictures (I can show you example later if you want). Do you think we could do something like that ? I think it is really useful and could avoid some misunderstanding or unprecisions of the RL CRLs.

Quote:

Ritin Kornas wrote:
boots : dark brown leather boots, weathered, similar style to stormtrooper boots : elastics on the side and no zipper.
- Jumpsuit goes over the boots and close there with a kind of scratch system.
- Black soles with a small heel.
- We should not require exact same seams


I think, there is just some mistake as you are describing boots which are belonging to Chirrut. Baze boots are nothing like stormtrooper boots.They have a zipper, there is no elastics on side.

My bad, I didn't remembered well and didn't checked back my CE pictures !



Quote:

Back:
I would specify "ALICE" type frame. This would not specify that the brand is needed for approval, but the same setup as an ALICE frame. If you state ALICE, people will know what to look for. While you may not be able to see the frame in pictures, take it from people that have seen the costume up close, it is an ALICE frame.
The backpack also has a flat top. There is no "nipple" cap so to speak. it should be flat.

Well, still, I don't think we should say it like on the first proposition "barrel holder - A.L.I.C.E. frame should be used "
I agree with something more like "Barrel holder : an pipe frame hold the barrel, should be an A.L.I.C.E style frame"
This way it doesn't require the specific frame and similar frame will be good.



Quote:
make up:
This is a formal costume, therefore needs to be screen accurate. Scar should be present for approval. NOT optional

I disagree with you. I just went to see Rogue One again, and come on, don't tell me the scar is visible and if you don't have it you are absolutely not representing the character. This is a super minor detail, there is only one scene in the movie where you can clearly see it ! And I saw it only because I was SPECIFICALLY looking for it. This is absolutely not comparable to luke lightsaber color which you an see with no doubt.
Make up is always a problem, specially for people allergic to latex or so on.
Do you really think a kid you visit at hospital or a simple convention visitor will mind or even see the scar ? Not everybody is part of the club for the same reasons, not everybody as the same goal when doing a costume, or else there would not be the debate about hair requirements. (BTW I've already seen so leia without the buns, and it was far better than some leia with the buns but where you could obviously said it was wigs and that were approved).
Also, I think this is really useless to require that except to annoy people. I explain :

Let's say it is required. Someone makes the costume with no scar cause it annoys him to wear this, and then he wants approval, it's denied by judge because of the lack of scar. The someone does new pictures with a scar, so that it is approved.
The next time he will wear the costume, do you really think he will bother to do the scar if it just annoys him ? Do you really think that because people had to change a minor details on pictures for approval they actually keep the details when they wear the costume after if it's more troubles in their mind than anything ?
How will you check they wear it right ? Will you requires pictures of the costumes on each event ?
If so, maybe you should go more often in european conventions. (I don't know where are you from, but I'm member since a relatively long time now, I you can see big cultural differences between US/Europe/SouthAmerica and even within the european bases, sometimes even a single base).

I don't think so, so in addition to be something so minor than just the details nazis (I'm deliberately provocative there) will take care of... I think it is useless...
So in my opinion this should be optional and not required the scar.




Flightsuit : when I search for nome flight suit I find a lot of this design :
[img]http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDQxMQ==/z/6WIAAOxyOlhS-rYO/$_3.JPG?set_id=2[/img]
Well, if it is the kind of material, then ok, but it should be clearly written.
I still think that we should not just say "british nomex flight suit" but be really precise on pouches places, number, collar, and all the details of construction/style, maybe precising "made of nomex-style fabric"
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im about halfway through this build, so I have a few questions.

1. Will we need a goatee also or just a wig/hair with the braids?
2. What about his cape?
3. Optional rocket launcher?

Edit: Do we have pics showing the 2 oval cut outs on the right side? I have only seen pics with the 6 on the left.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Few comments.

First, I don't think the scar should be required, it honestly is not that noticeable and 99.9% of the people won't notice it's not there. Also I noticed a lot of the Baze toys don't even have the scar.

Second, we should not dictate the number of lines of stitching on the arm. Sizes of people vary and it might not look right for some people to have that exact number. I've had challenges just sizing down the Solo costumes with pockets to look correct on my smaller frame, same issue with imperial flight suits for me.


Finally, this costume is extremely complex and we need to take care in not bogging the standard down with details that aren't necessary for the costume to look good. We need to find the balance of screen accuracy versus what looks good enough.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ritin Kornas wrote:

Quote:

Back:
I would specify "ALICE" type frame. This would not specify that the brand is needed for approval, but the same setup as an ALICE frame. If you state ALICE, people will know what to look for. While you may not be able to see the frame in pictures, take it from people that have seen the costume up close, it is an ALICE frame.
The backpack also has a flat top. There is no "nipple" cap so to speak. it should be flat.

Well, still, I don't think we should say it like on the first proposition "barrel holder - A.L.I.C.E. frame should be used "
I agree with something more like "Barrel holder : an pipe frame hold the barrel, should be an A.L.I.C.E style frame"
This way it doesn't require the specific frame and similar frame will be good.


Yep, however, the wording should state "... can be fan-made but must include details as seen on an A.L.I.C.E style frame." It's a different frame then one's used for the Sand Trooper backpack, and Endor/Hoth backpacks, so just reference to the expected details. Wink


Ronan wrote:
Im about halfway through this build, so I have a few questions.
1. Will we need a goatee also or just a wig/hair with the braids?

Yes, I believe the facial hair is important to the character.

Quote:
2. What about his cape?

He always has the drape behind his left shoulder... however, to my knowledge the "cape" was only used on the life-size standee (maybe some deleted scenes down the road), and don't remember if he even wore it on Eadu... So the large poncho should be optional.

Quote:
3. Optional rocket launcher?

It's not his... he picks it up of the battlefield, and I believe it's an Imperial weapon.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ladysolo14 wrote:
Finally, this costume is extremely complex and we need to take care in not bogging the standard down with details that aren't necessary for the costume to look good. We need to find the balance of screen accuracy versus what looks good enough.

Good words, another reason to propose a CRL with few details in optionnial with only a part of them required to be approved!




TrooperPX wrote:

Quote:
3. Optional rocket launcher?

It's not his... he picks it up of the battlefield, and I believe it's an Imperial weapon.


I believe it's more a Rebel rocket launcher drop by one of the others rebels there. Why would imperial be with such a weapon ?
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