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Standards Revision: Cloud City Leia
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SongofAmazon (Jenna)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Standards Revision: Cloud City Leia Reply with quote

The public membership has agreed to rename this costume "Cloud City Leia," and proposed the following revisions. As we were getting lots of great feedback, feel free to continue that discussion here.

LeiaYT1300 wrote:

Princess Leia Organa - Bespin Cloak Ensemble

Required Items:

1. Tunic
a. Rust red or brick redcolored tunic made in a non-shiny fabric or a fabric with a light pearl sheen, either silk crepe de chine or similar. The tunic should be lined in a fabric of a similar or lighter weight and texture.
b. The neckline of the tunic is a boat neck style, slightly curved from shoulder to shoulder, which should reach the collar bone.
c. The tunic has a slit in each side seam that starts no higher than the waist and extends down to the hem.
d. The sleeves of the tunic are fitted, but not skin tight, and reach down to the hand. The ends of the sleeves should end in a rounded point over the lower part of the hand.
e. The tunic should reach down to just above the knee.
f. All edges of the tunic have a copper braid metallic trim.

2. Belt
a. The belt is stiff and must be covered in the same fabric as the tunic and pants.
b. The shape of the belt is a large diamond/rhombus 4-5"/10-13 cm with curved points.
c. The belt is fitted snugly to the wearer's waist.

3. Pants
a. Loose fitted harem pants that are made in the same fabric as the tunic.
b. The pants are gathered to a 1-2"/2.5-5 cm cuff at the ankles.

4. Cloak
a. The yoke of the cloak is made of an off-white, non-shiny or a fabric with a light pearl sheen, either silk crepe de chine or similar and is lightly padded. The off-white fabric is interlined with the same rust red or brick red fabric used in the tunic and pants.
b. The yoke is quilted with straight quilted lines that are closer together
and become further apart towards the bottom of the yoke in a spoke-like fashion. There should be an average of 15 to 22 quilting lines. The thread of the quilting should match the color of the tunic and pants.
c. The front of the yoke does not close at the center front and lies open to reveal the tunic.
d. The yoke comes to a rounded point in the center of the back; this point should reach down roughly to the lower edge of the shoulder blades.
e. The sides of the yoke should reach just over the ends of the shoulder.
f. The collar of the yoke is a standing collar, approximately 2 inches/5cm.
g. The yoke has the same copper braid metallic trim as the tunic, trimming all edges, including the neckline seam of the collar.
h. The cloak should be a semi-sheer off white, or a fabric with a light pearl sheen, either silk crepe de chine or similar that is attached to the cloak.
i. The cloak must be attached to the yoke with neat knife pleats.
j. The cloak is decorated with five of the same paisley motifs, filled with a thick, contoured X shaped pattern, complete with five mini-rosettes in the middle and five larger rosettes at the bottom of each of the five patterns. Optional: Portions of the pattern have a method of shading or shadow stitching (also known as a reverse herringbone stitch) on the wrong side of the fabric to provide depth when viewed from the right side of the fabric.
k. There is one pattern on the center back, one on each side, and one on each side of the front. The two front patterns are cut off at the upper right and upper left large rosettes that flank the center front, with the finished center front edges of the cloak cutting off each of these outer rosettes just at the outer dark brown stitch ring.
l. The five patterns may be embroidered or printed onto the fabric and must have the following accurate colors all included: butter yellow, dusty rose pink, rust red or brick red (same color as tunic and pants), dark burgundy, , and dark brown. The intricate X patterns are outlined with yellow lines of stitching (stem stitch or similar stitching) to enhance the overall shape.
m. The patterns must be scaled proportionally to the wearer.
l. The lining of the cloak is a sheer rust red or brick red, either silk chiffon or similar, a color that should match the color of the tunic and pants. The lining and outer fabric of the cloak should be pleated and sewn together with no top stitching. The lining can have side seams if necessary.
m. The cloak should reach down to the ankles.
n. The cloak has the same copper braid metallic trim as the tunic and pants on all edges.

5. Shoes
a. The shoes are flat ballet slippers, dyed to match the tunic and pants.

6. Hair
a. Hair is pulled back to the crown of the head and into a twisted bun.
b. Descending from the under bun are two looped braids. These braids should be full and thick and reach down to the base of the neck.
c. The side hairs over the ears should be loose and curly.
d. Naturally occurring hair colors only; no bangs. Brown hair recommended.

Optional:
1. Matte red-brown lipstick.

2. Black non-liquid (solid) eyeliner and mascara.

3. Brown eye shadow.

4. Rose blush.

5. Brown lenses.

Note: Makeup used must enhance a natural look.


This discussion will remain open for at least two weeks or until a consensus is reached.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the public discussion was really thourough, so I don't have anything to add except a question.

For the cape, since it's more specific about what kind of fabrics there should be, will it still be possible to use the fabric from spoonflower?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope so. Since the spoonflower fabric is best ordered on the silk crepe de chine, or poly crepe de chine.

It's a really really nice alternative for those that may not have the needlepoint or drawing skills for that design.
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SongofAmazon (Jenna)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with it. Probably we could add a clause that "Printed fabric is accepted as long as it has an accurate pattern and is proportional to the wearer."
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding a clause about having a proportional pattern would be fine. Smile

And I will have to disagree slightly regarding the colors; from all the references I've looked at I can see no pink on the cloak. If anybody has a reference that shows the pink clearly I would like to see it, please.
On the bottom rosettes I see dark brown, cream (currently referred to as buttery yellow?), light/medium yellow, and copper/coppery brown. In total the patterns seems to include five colors.
The whole pattern is lined with the light/medium yellow.

I would also like to know the reason for calling the trim a braid, and suggest it is either written as 'metallic copper braid trim' or 'metallic copper piping trim'.

Regarding the quilting lines on the yoke, I still think we should mention how many is on the original even if we allow for a different number. The number will also have to be uneven, so either 21 or 23, instead of 22. Since the original was 21, we can make a span like 19, 21, 23 to allow for extra of fewer lines to keep it proportional. Or say 17, 19, 21, 23, 25, if you like. The last will make quite a few inches/centimeters in difference. The important thing is to keep the look and make it proportional to the wearer. (This should also be listed for the belt).

Do we wish to only make ballet slippers approvable in the future or will we also allow similar flat shoes?


Those are my current thoughts regarding this costume.
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LeiaYT1300 (Beret Balestrieri Kohn)
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Spoonflower print would certainly be fine, if ordered in the silk or poly crepe as suggested. It gives greater accessibility to the membership for the pattern.

In regards to the pink in the embroidery, on the last discussion thread before the lock/move, I posted reasons for it, along with visual references:

Quote:
I disagree with the removal of the pink color in the embroidery. The original cloak does have a dusty rose, almost mauve pink in the center paisley motif immediately below the small rosettes, and the formal studio shots along with the exhibition shots support it. This is also confirmed by a number of ladies in years' past who have seen the costume in person, myself included. It is not a copper color, which would be too orange compared to the pink color seen in the photos, including the shots in the Alinger book.

http://rebelshaven.com/SWFFAQ/images/bespin/detail04.jpg

http://www.padawansguide.com/leia_bespin/ref22.jpg


Other exhibition images support this as well, and as mentioned before, the links for the Padawan's guide images might not always work and may require a copy/paste.

As for the butter yellow versus white, because the satin stitch for the outlining of the motifs is worked to create a thick rope, the buttery shade is better preserved. When working the shadow stitch, the threads are a thinner backstitch using very tiny stitches, and as the shading behind the fabric becomes more pronounced, the buttery color of the yellow fades into the surrounding off-white crepe fabric. The petals of the pattern show this very well.

http://www.padawansguide.com/leia_bespin/scan1.jpg

http://rebelshaven.com/SWFFAQ/images/bespin/detail04.jpg

There is also burgundy in the embroidery in the large flanking paisley motifs just above the large rosettes. However it is extremely dark - almost a black cherry color. And while it most often appears dark brown in the photos, you can see it in some of the exhibition photos. In those photos, the outer flanking motifs are ruddier and redder than the cooler brown center motif.

http://www.padawansguide.com/leia_bespin/ref20.jpg

http://www.padawansguide.com/leia_bespin/ref24.jpg

As for the copper trim, the original is a braided trim, not a covered cord. With the Kreinik braid #32 weight in copper still widely available and generally agreed upon as a proper trim to recreate the original, covered copper cord or piping should not be accepted.

I'm fine with listing the actual number of quilting lines for the yoke, but certainly stressing the need to maintain proportion if a person would use more or less lines to achieve it.

I added the word "ballet" to the shoe description to give a sense of the proper style but I don't feel it should be a hard guideline. If there is an alternative wording that everyone feels would make better sense, I'm all for it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is the first I've seen that actually shows up pink in the photos:
http://www.padawansguide.com/leia_bespin/ref20.jpg

It's definitely a light rose one.

And to me cream and buttery yellow are basically the same. Wink Cream is definitely darker than white.

So, colors are: buttery yellow, light/medium yellow, dusty rose pink, copper, (reddish) burgundy, dark brown? It looks about right to me.

Oh, I agree it should be braided, but here it's all called piping trim whether braided or covered if it's attached to anything. Metallic copper braided trim, would be the name then.

Ballet shoes would work fine, but I'm as concerned about what you write as what you don't write. Both are equally important.

5. Shoes
a. The shoes are flat ballet slippers or similar, dyed to match the tunic and pants.
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LeiaYT1300 (Beret Balestrieri Kohn)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think this is the first I've seen that actually shows up pink in the photos:
http://www.padawansguide.com/leia_bespin/ref20.jpg

It's definitely a light rose one.


The front view of the Alinger shots shows the dusty rose as a bit darker but the back view show it roughly the same light/almost medium dusty rose pink color seen in other studio shots and in exhibition.

Quote:
And to me cream and buttery yellow are basically the same. wink2 Cream is definitely darker than white. So, colors are: buttery yellow, light/medium yellow, dusty rose pink, copper, (reddish) burgundy, dark brown? It looks about right to me.


I can see the similarity you suggest - like butter yellow to a lighter "creme brulee" cream - within that range. I agree with the overall listing above, but would add that the burgundy be listed as a "dark burgundy red" or similar, to describe how very dark the shade is.

Quote:
Oh, I agree it should be braided, but here it's all called piping trim whether braided or covered if it's attached to anything. Metallic copper braided trim, would be the name then.

Ballet shoes would work fine, but I'm as concerned about what you write as what you don't write. Both are equally important.

5. Shoes
a. The shoes are flat ballet slippers or similar, dyed to match the tunic and pants.


So we can nix any reference to covered cord or piping. And regarding your suggestion to expand on the description of the ballet shoes, I entirely agree with the addition you made. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent. Smile I think we may soon have a finished standard update.

Okay, so how about this for color description?
Buttery yellow/dark cream, light/medium yellow, dusty rose pink, copper, dark burgundy red, dark brown.

Does everybody think that works for describing the colors in the embroidery?
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LeiaYT1300 (Beret Balestrieri Kohn)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with all the color descriptions, except for the "copper". We should instead use the "rust red or brick red" description for that color, as it is the exact match of the tunic and pants and that's the color description we will be using for it.

I think the use of "copper" would be too confusing and allows for orange/amber tones that should not be there.

Otherwise, I agree we are near to a great revision for this standard. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear, when discussing the copper vs rust red/brick red, we are talking about the color used for the leaves on the lower pair of the middle rosettes in this image:
http://padawansguide.com/leia_bespin/refm4.jpg
or the inner set of leaves on the lower rosettes/outer set of leaves on the higher rosettes in this image:
http://padawansguide.com/leia_bespin/refm5.jpg

I referred to it as copper, because it seems to be a match for the copper cording on the cape. And in the Star Wars Costumes it also comes of as copper on the page.

And in this picture it does look more coppery orange compared to the lining and color of the shoes, which have a more red look to them:
http://padawansguide.com/leia_bespin/ref19.jpg


I'm wondering if anyone can do a color pull from the images. XD
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, those particular sections, and I feel that color of those embroidery sections is less copper than it seems.

I took the high-res scans I have of the studio shots from the books and made up comparison collages for review.

https://flic.kr/p/UJ3CiU
https://flic.kr/p/W1qrr6
https://flic.kr/p/UJ3BWb

When you bring the various embroidery motif sections closer to the tunic (and the copper braid trim), it's apparent that the color of the embroidery is virtually the same as the tunic fabric, even if the tunic itself shows either more red or more brown in the shots, whether in full light or shadow, so it should carry the same color name as the tunic/pants.

But no question the tunic/pants and the related embroidery sections have copper overtones to it, as you see in the differences in the shade of the sleeves between the three studio photos--the braided trim even more so with the metallic elements.

And I agree there's a bit more orange in the third photo you linked (ref19.jpg), but as this image is saturated with hot contrast from the camera flash, the difference between the embroidery color and the tunic color would be practically imperceptible without the flash. So I felt it best to review the colors using the shots of the cloak under controlled studio lighting. Flash shots are helpful in determining differences between colors, but not necessarily for determining the actual shades of colors.

My main concern is with the use of the word "copper".

If you search the phrase "copper color" online, the image results are predominantly more orange and amber-colored than red, and I feel that if we use the word "copper", it will be confusing to the costumers, resulting in shades that are way too orange. Alternately, a search for "rust red" or "brick red" gives results that are predominately closer to the shade we're looking for with copper overtones in it.

This is why I suggest the use of "rust red" or "brick red" instead of copper, so that we may be more thoroughly descriptive of what the color actually is and create the best guide for the colors that we can.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent comparisons, Beret. Smile I'm glad we've had this discussion. Color names definitely have a great impact on how people perceive and do things. We'll stick with rust red/brick red for the description then.
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LeiaYT1300 (Beret Balestrieri Kohn)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Lora, for the wonderful discussion of the standards so far. It's been a delightful conversation, and it's helped me to see things I have missed in my own research, and consider various aspects with a fresh perspective. It's much appreciated. Smile

I know I've been somewhat nitpicky in tackling these standards, but it's not often that a standards revision occurs (the last one was in 2012 and I don't believe it was completed), and this standard in particular really needed some serious review.

Having been an R/S LCJ for a period of years in the past, when the standards have gaps in description, or lack clear wording, it's confusing for the costumers as well as the judges, hampering the approval process. The standards were a simple bullet list in the early years, and we have come a long way towards developing a more detailed standard, but there is still much to do and in this round of revisions, I think it's being achieved now.

We have so much more imagery available now than we did then - indeed more high-res imagery - and have learned so much more of the history and creation of the Bespin cloak (thank you Alinger!), a revision of this standard is essential now, and knowing it will probably be a few years before it's revisited again, I felt it was time not only to forward what I had and help where I could, but to strive to see the standard as detailed as possible, while always including the real-world flexibility to help the costumer achieve approval without undue restriction.

Okay, off the soapbox now. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And thank you for the discussion. Very Happy I want to update all of our standards (yes, all of them) and get them to be the best we can do, for the sake of both the costumers and the LCJs. This is one of the big projects Jenna and I are doing this term for the detachment, and we hope to continue with this next term as well.
No more unclear standards!

I thought I was going to write up the final standard proposal this weekend, but somehow I barely got any time online, so... it'll be done this week instead. (Can't promise I have time tonight, but then tomorrow).
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