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Rebel Marine (Scarif) Costume Standard Discussion
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jthatcher (Jim Thatcher)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Rebel Marine (Scarif) Costume Standard Discussion Reply with quote

RAID has gone long enough without a formal standard for this costume and the time has come to remedy that. The proposed standard is a bear due to all the variation seen in the troopers, but we need something concrete. Please comment about any changes to the proposal you'd like to discuss.

This discussion will remain open until November 13 and then it will move to a vote.

UPDATE: proposed standard has been changed to the following:

Rebel Marine (Scarif)

Headgear:

-Choose one variation-

Variation A
Hoth-style soft cap in coyote brown or blue with replica communication device and tactical goggles. Replica communication device must be proportional to the wearer. Goggles may have clear, smoke, or yellow tinted lenses.

Variation B
M1-style helmet with tan cloth helmet cover, and green or dark grey replica outer ring. Cloth helmet cover should have ribbed strip on the top that does not extend past the replica outer ring. Screen accurate logo may be placed on front left of replica outer ring. Rubber band circling outer ring, flashlight, and pill box may be present but are optional.

Variation C
AN-H-15 cloth cap (or replica) and green or dark grey “donut” rigid outer ring. A ribbed strip on the top and cloth bill should be present on the cloth cap. Screen accurate logo may be placed on front left of replica outer ring.

Variation D
Accurate helmet with rounded front, pointed back, and five ridges along the top (Eskro Casrich-style, see Rogue One Visual Dictionary). Screen accurate logo may be placed on front left of helmet.

Torso:

-Choose one variation-

Variation A
Zip-up canvas jacket in khaki, brown, or dark blue with military style stand collar. Sleeves should have row of tan stripes from shoulder to cuff. Stripes should be approximately 1.5 inches in width.

-AND-

M69-style flak vest in dark blue, brown, or tan with accurate greeblie on upper left chest, color matching pouch on left chest below the greeblie, and adjustment strapping. Optional color detail on right shoulder may be present in yellow or red and white.

Variation B
Russian Gorka top type III (button down) or IV (pullover) of olive-green fabric with brown reinforcement panels.

-AND-

U.S. Medium Olive Drab Nylon Grenade Vest, dyed black with yellow detail on the two grenade pouches on the upper right shoulder. The grenade pocket tabs, grenade pocket edge tape, and the vest's edge tape are painted brown.

-OR-

Sten Machine Carbine Magazine sash-style bandolier.

Variation C
Pullover canvas jacket with Velcro neck closure in blue or khaki. Left sleeve has two pouches half way between the shoulder and elbow. Right sleeve has accurate emblem at the shoulder.

-AND-

Screen accurate, open-backed vest in brown or dark blue with accurate greeblie on left chest and yellow detail on upper right chest. Greeblie on lower right chest may be present but is optional.

Belt:

PLCE belt in tan or olive. Belt closure should be roll pin-style or silver buckle with accurate greeblie.

Pants:

BDU-style pants in chocolate, coyote brown, khaki, or dark blue with cargo pocket on each outer thigh. Pants may have accurate padding sewn in to knees. Pant legs are worn inside the boots.

Boots:

Chelsea-style boot in brown or black leather (can be suede). No visible laces.

Gaiters:

-Choose one variation-

Variation A
Swiss military-style leather gaiters with three straps across the back and one that goes under the arch of the boot.

Variation B
Anklet-style cuff.

Gaiters should match boot color regardless of style.

Optional Equipment:

Black sniper scarf
Sterling SMG magazine carrier bandolier
Sten Machine Carbine Magazine bandolier
Olive French three grenade pouch
Olive drab military satchel or pouch
Greek Thompson mag pouch with accurate tubes filling the pouch.
Field ration pouch with accurate emblem
Beige gauntlets with accurate greeblie on the left wrist

Blaster: (Unless local laws prohibit or strongly discourage carrying anything that looks like a firearm)
A-300 in carbine, rifle, or sniper configuration
DH-17

Original proposal

Rebel Marine (Scarif)

Headgear:

-Choose one variation-

Variation A
Hoth-style soft cap in coyote brown or blue with replica communication device and tactical goggles. Replica communication device must be proportional to the wearer. Goggles may have clear, smoke, or yellow tinted lenses.

Variation B
M1-style helmet with tan cloth helmet cover, and green or dark grey replica outer ring. Cloth helmet cover should have ribbed strip on the top that does not extend past the replica outer ring. Screen accurate logo may be placed on front left of replica outer ring. Rubber band circling outer ring, flashlight, and pill box may be present but are optional.

Variation C
AN-H-15 cloth cap (or replica) and green Endor-style “donut” rigid outer ring. A ribbed strip on the top and cloth bill should be present on the cloth cap. Screen accurate logo may be placed on front left of replica outer ring.

Variation D
Accurate helmet with rounded front, pointed back, and five ridges along the top (Eskro Casrich-style, see Rogue One Visual Dictionary). Screen accurate logo may be placed on front left of helmet.

Vest:

-Choose one variation-

Variation A
M69-style flak vest in dark blue or tan with accurate greeblie on upper left chest, two color matching pouches on left chest below the greeblie, and yellow detail on right upper chest.

Variation B
U.S. Medium Olive Drab Nylon Grenade Vest, dyed brown with yellow detail on the two grenade pouches on the upper right shoulder.

Variation C
Screen accurate, open-backed vest in brown or blue with accurate greeblie on left chest and yellow detail on upper right chest.

Jacket:

-Choose one variation-

Variation A
Russian Gorka top type III (button down) or IV (pullover) of olive-green fabric with brown reinforcement panels.

Variation B
Pullover canvas jacket with Velcro neck closure in blue or khaki. Left sleeve has two pouches half way between the shoulder and elbow. Right sleeve has accurate emblem at the shoulder.

Variation C
Zip-up canvas jacket in khaki, brown, or dark blue with military style stand collar. Sleeves should have row of tan stripes from shoulder to cuff. Stripes should be approximately 1.5 inches in width.

Belt:

PLCE belt in tan or olive. Belt closure should be roll pin-style or silver buckle with accurate greeblie.

Pants:

BDU-style pants in chocolate, coyote brown, or blue with cargo pocket on each upper leg. Pants may have accurate padding sewn in to knees. Pant legs are worn inside the boots.

Boots:

Chelsea-style boot in brown or black leather. No visible laces.
Choose one style of gaiter:

Swiss military-style leather gaiters with three straps across the back and one that goes under the arch of the boot.

Anklet-style cuff.

*Gaiter should match boot color regardless of style.

Optional Equipment:

Black sniper scarf
Sterling SMG magazine carrier bandolier
Sten Machine Carbine Magazine bandolier
Olive French three grenade pouch
Olive drab military satchel or pouch
Greek Thompson mag pouch with accurate tubes filling the pouch.
Field ration pouch with accurate emblem
Tan leather gloves with accurate greeblie on the left wrist

Blaster: (Unless local laws prohibit or strongly discourage carrying anything that looks like a firearm)
A280-CFE in pistol, carbine, or sniper configuration
A-300
DH-17
_________________


Jim Thatcher
R.A.I.D. Endor Commando, Rebel Marine (Scarif) - 307th Desert Rats
C.O.R. Captain Rex - Anooba Squad


Last edited by jthatcher (Jim Thatcher) on Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:09 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Ronan (Jon)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just one note
-Corporal Eskro in the Visual guide has no vest, just some bandoleers and a sash thing. Kind of like a Boy Scout merit badge sash.
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Arie Tov (Christian Ariel Tovar)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For these pictures I would add that the boots can also be suede in brown.



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Jananichole ()
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the troopers have full vests like Cassian? I see this has them as being open back but I know Corporal Maddell (and a few others) has the full vest. Some of the troopers also don't wear headgear, so that should maybe be optional?
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jthatcher (Jim Thatcher)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jananichole wrote:
Some of the troopers have full vests like Cassian? I see this has them as being open back but I know Corporal Maddell (and a few others) has the full vest. Some of the troopers also don't wear headgear, so that should maybe be optional?


Cassian's vest is an M69-style vest, variation A.

Are you referring to the troopers pictured in the visual dictionary without headgear?
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R.A.I.D. Endor Commando, Rebel Marine (Scarif) - 307th Desert Rats
C.O.R. Captain Rex - Anooba Squad
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jthatcher (Jim Thatcher)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As its written now, all the tops and vests are mix and match. That could create some inaccurate looking combinations. I think it would be more accurate to change it to something like only the grenade vest and sten bandolier is compatible with the gorka, only the m69 vest is compatible with the zip up jacket, only the open backed vest is compatible with the pullover. Make sense?
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jthatcher (Jim Thatcher)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With some feedback from this thread and from the Rogue One Troopers facebook group, I've updated the proposed standard.

Changes are as follows:
-Removed Endor-style from the description of the donut. The donut is a different shape and has a different back panel.
-Added optional greeblie on the bottom right side of the open-backed vest.
-Added option for suede leather for the boots.
-Reorganized sections for "jacket" and "vest" to one section and it has been relabeled "torso". Vests correspond to specific jackets as seen in the film and this change has been made to reflect that. This also solves a problem posed about Eskro Casrich only wearing the gorka-style top and a sten machine sash-syle bandolier.

I know that some have expressed their desire for unlimited mixing and matching of the various components, but I just don't see that as feasible from an accuracy standpoint. There's already a TON of customization between 4 different types of headgear, 3 different types of torso configurations, 2 types of gaiters, 8 types of optional equipment, and 3 different blasters.

Rebel Marine (Scarif)

Headgear:

-Choose one variation-

Variation A
Hoth-style soft cap in coyote brown or blue with replica communication device and tactical goggles. Replica communication device must be proportional to the wearer. Goggles may have clear, smoke, or yellow tinted lenses.

Variation B
M1-style helmet with tan cloth helmet cover, and green or dark grey replica outer ring. Cloth helmet cover should have ribbed strip on the top that does not extend past the replica outer ring. Screen accurate logo may be placed on front left of replica outer ring. Rubber band circling outer ring, flashlight, and pill box may be present but are optional.

Variation C
AN-H-15 cloth cap (or replica) and green or dark grey “donut” rigid outer ring. A ribbed strip on the top and cloth bill should be present on the cloth cap. Screen accurate logo may be placed on front left of replica outer ring.

Variation D
Accurate helmet with rounded front, pointed back, and five ridges along the top (Eskro Casrich-style, see Rogue One Visual Dictionary). Screen accurate logo may be placed on front left of helmet.

Torso:

-Choose one variation-

Variation A
Zip-up canvas jacket in khaki, brown, or dark blue with military style stand collar. Sleeves should have row of tan stripes from shoulder to cuff. Stripes should be approximately 1.5 inches in width.

-AND-

M69-style flak vest in dark blue or tan with accurate greeblie on upper left chest, two color matching pouches on left chest below the greeblie, and yellow detail on right upper chest.

Variation B
Russian Gorka top type III (button down) or IV (pullover) of olive-green fabric with brown reinforcement panels.

-AND-

U.S. Medium Olive Drab Nylon Grenade Vest, dyed brown with yellow detail on the two grenade pouches on the upper right shoulder.

-OR-

Sten Machine Carbine Magazine sash-style bandolier.

Variation C
Pullover canvas jacket with Velcro neck closure in blue or khaki. Left sleeve has two pouches half way between the shoulder and elbow. Right sleeve has accurate emblem at the shoulder.

-AND-

Screen accurate, open-backed vest in brown or blue with accurate greeblie on left chest and yellow detail on upper right chest. Greeblie on lower right chest may be present but is optional.

Belt:

PLCE belt in tan or olive. Belt closure should be roll pin-style or silver buckle with accurate greeblie.

Pants:

BDU-style pants in chocolate, coyote brown, or blue with cargo pocket on each upper leg. Pants may have accurate padding sewn in to knees. Pant legs are worn inside the boots.

Boots:

Chelsea-style boot in brown or black leather (can be suede). No visible laces.

Gaiters:

-Choose one variation-

Variation A
Swiss military-style leather gaiters with three straps across the back and one that goes under the arch of the boot.

Variation B
Anklet-style cuff.

Gaiters should match boot color regardless of style.

Optional Equipment:

Black sniper scarf
Sterling SMG magazine carrier bandolier
Sten Machine Carbine Magazine bandolier
Olive French three grenade pouch
Olive drab military satchel or pouch
Greek Thompson mag pouch with accurate tubes filling the pouch.
Field ration pouch with accurate emblem
Tan leather gloves with accurate greeblie on the left wrist

Blaster: (Unless local laws prohibit or strongly discourage carrying anything that looks like a firearm)
A280-CFE in pistol, carbine, or sniper configuration
A-300
DH-17
_________________


Jim Thatcher
R.A.I.D. Endor Commando, Rebel Marine (Scarif) - 307th Desert Rats
C.O.R. Captain Rex - Anooba Squad
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twhigham (Troy Whigham)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Boots:

Chelsea-style boot in brown or black leather. No visible laces.
Choose one style of gaiter:

Swiss military-style leather gaiters with three straps across the back and one that goes under the arch of the boot.

Anklet-style cuff.

*Gaiter should match boot color regardless of style.


On the WW2 double-buckle boots, the Swiss gaiter covers the laces, and the boots have the ankle cuff built into the boot itself. I cut my Swiss gaiters down to expose the buckle, but still cover the laces. The boots are suede brown, darkened with age and Sno-Seal waxing, to a near-black. You may want to revise the code to permit dark brown boots with the black Swiss gaiters.
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jthatcher (Jim Thatcher)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhigham wrote:


On the WW2 double-buckle boots, the Swiss gaiter covers the laces, and the boots have the ankle cuff built into the boot itself. I cut my Swiss gaiters down to expose the buckle, but still cover the laces. The boots are suede brown, darkened with age and Sno-Seal waxing, to a near-black. You may want to revise the code to permit dark brown boots with the black Swiss gaiters.


Are you referring to these double buckle boots?



If so, I don't believe they are actually seen on a Rebel Marine. The anklet cuffs don't have buckles. If there's a reference stating otherwise, please post it. That way the standard can be updated.

The swiss gaiters I was referring to are these:



Yosh Calfor wears them and they can be seen in the visual dictionary.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Yes and yes on both.
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronan wrote:
Just one note
-Corporal Eskro in the Visual guide has no vest, just some bandoleers and a sash thing. Kind of like a Boy Scout merit badge sash.


Since this version has a name, it would be considered a face character and one would have to make the entire costume as "Corporal Eskro".

What Jim is doing here making a "generic" Trooper standard.
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Ronan (Jon)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schph Gochi wrote:
Ronan wrote:
Just one note
-Corporal Eskro in the Visual guide has no vest, just some bandoleers and a sash thing. Kind of like a Boy Scout merit badge sash.


Since this version has a name, it would be considered a face character and one would have to make the entire costume as "Corporal Eskro".

What Jim is doing here making a "generic" Trooper standard.



True, but then so do most of the others have names and we only see them in that style.
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronan wrote:

True, but then so do most of the others have names and we only see them in that style.


I am sure that many of them DO have names....
and...feel free to make a named version if you choose..
but please also read the part of the Charter for information on making characters where there is no standard. If you can provide the reference material for any of the named characters as required in the charter, please feel free.

This is not about covering every costume of this type that may be out there. It is about nailing down essentials with some optional items so that the folks who make the costume will have some ability to customize by adding optional items yet still look like a "unit". A good example to look at is the Endor Trooper standard.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some changes to propose:

Quote:
M69-style flak vest in black/dark blue, brown, or tan with accurate greeblie on upper left chest, color matching pouch on left chest below the greeblie, adjustment strapping, and optional color detail on right upper chest.


* Optional Color Detail: some vests have red and white on the right shoulder instead of yellow, and some have no color at all. [ref1] [ref2] [ref3]

* Vest Colors: Brown was notably overlooked but is there on a lot of troopers wearing the M69 variant. [ref1]

As for black, this is the same lighting/color argument we have with the gray/white RFT helmets and elsewhere. The vests appear on screen so dark and faded that it's hard to tell if it was dark navy blue or a true black, but I'd rather err towards what the color appears to be (DARK) than a lighter blue or purple. Ensuring it is always listed as dark blue may do the trick.
[ref 1] Vest appears black
[ref2] Same vest appears blue

* Pouch: The main cover spans both pouches, making it appear as one unit. I think this is more noticeable than the division, especially since the closure strap down the middle covers the separation. [ref1] Broadening the pouch definition allows judges to fall back to references for specifics and keeps the standard concise.

* Adjustment strapping: This is often a different color than the vest and is quite visually identifiable, especially the band towards the bottom of the vest. It is also a main thing that makes this vest look different (from the front) than the Hoth-style open back vest.


Quote:
Pants:

BDU-style pants in chocolate, coyote brown, khaki, or dark blue with cargo pocket on each outer thigh. Pants may have accurate padding sewn in to knees. Pant legs are worn inside the boots.


* Khaki: [ref1] [ref2]

* Dark blue: continuation of color conversation earlier.

* Cargo Pocket: "Upper Leg" could be confused with the cargo pockets on the front of the thighs like on all of the pilot and tech jumpsuits. We can always fall back to visual references but "outer thigh" I feel is more clear.


Quote:
Optional Equipment:
Beige gauntlets with accurate greeblie on the left wrist
A-300 in carbine, rifle, or sniper configuration


* Gloves: These are referring to the gloves Melshi wears, I believe. They look identical to the Blue Squadron pilots, so I suggest we make the standards the same.
[Melshi][Blue Squadron]

* A-300: It seems this is getting mixed up with the A280-CFE. Only Cassian uses the A280-CFE, and all the generic Pathfinder troopers use the A-300.
[A280-CFE]
[A-300 Rifle Mode]
[A-300 carbine mode]
[A-300 sniper mode]
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jthatcher (Jim Thatcher)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kievan Mereel wrote:
I have some changes to propose:

Quote:
M69-style flak vest in black/dark blue, brown, or tan with accurate greeblie on upper left chest, color matching pouch on left chest below the greeblie, adjustment strapping, and optional color detail on right upper chest.


* Optional Color Detail: some vests have red and white on the right shoulder instead of yellow, and some have no color at all. [ref1] [ref2] [ref3]

* Vest Colors: Brown was notably overlooked but is there on a lot of troopers wearing the M69 variant. [ref1]

As for black, this is the same lighting/color argument we have with the gray/white RFT helmets and elsewhere. The vests appear on screen so dark and faded that it's hard to tell if it was dark navy blue or a true black, but I'd rather err towards what the color appears to be (DARK) than a lighter blue or purple. Ensuring it is always listed as dark blue may do the trick.
[ref 1] Vest appears black
[ref2] Same vest appears blue

* Pouch: The main cover spans both pouches, making it appear as one unit. I think this is more noticeable than the division, especially since the closure strap down the middle covers the separation. [ref1] Broadening the pouch definition allows judges to fall back to references for specifics and keeps the standard concise.

* Adjustment strapping: This is often a different color than the vest and is quite visually identifiable, especially the band towards the bottom of the vest. It is also a main thing that makes this vest look different (from the front) than the Hoth-style open back vest.


Quote:
Pants:

BDU-style pants in chocolate, coyote brown, khaki, or dark blue with cargo pocket on each outer thigh. Pants may have accurate padding sewn in to knees. Pant legs are worn inside the boots.


* Khaki: [ref1] [ref2]

* Dark blue: continuation of color conversation earlier.

* Cargo Pocket: "Upper Leg" could be confused with the cargo pockets on the front of the thighs like on all of the pilot and tech jumpsuits. We can always fall back to visual references but "outer thigh" I feel is more clear.


Quote:
Optional Equipment:
Beige gauntlets with accurate greeblie on the left wrist
A-300 in carbine, rifle, or sniper configuration


* Gloves: These are referring to the gloves Melshi wears, I believe. They look identical to the Blue Squadron pilots, so I suggest we make the standards the same.
[Melshi][Blue Squadron]

* A-300: It seems this is getting mixed up with the A280-CFE. Only Cassian uses the A280-CFE, and all the generic Pathfinder troopers use the A-300.
[A280-CFE]
[A-300 Rifle Mode]
[A-300 carbine mode]
[A-300 sniper mode]


Excellent! Thank you for the information and the references. The changes have been added to the proposed standard.
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R.A.I.D. Endor Commando, Rebel Marine (Scarif) - 307th Desert Rats
C.O.R. Captain Rex - Anooba Squad
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