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Poe Dameron-TLJ-jacket and pants standard discussion
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Poe Dameron-TLJ-jacket and pants standard discussion Reply with quote

Sending for vote:


Poe TLJ Costume

Jacket -
Poe wears a dark brown field jacket
1. Poe’s jacket appears to be constructed of either dark brown waxed or coated tightly woven cotton or an ultra-thin waxy leather or leather-like fabric. Waxed cotton is preferred.
a. If it is cotton it should have a sheen and some crispness
b. If it is leather, it should be thin enough to have crisp corners and flat seams.
2. The jacket length should fall to the point of the hip, or midway between the crotch and the belt.
3. The sleeves are cuffed just above the wrist and extend to the middle of the hand.
4. The jacket has two pockets on either side of the chest with flaps and mitered corners at the bottom with double rows of topstitching on pockets and flaps.
5. The front of the jacket features two seams on opposite sides of the pocket running the length of the front with double rows of topstitching
6. There is a seam running diagonally across the shoulder of the front of the jacket from armpit to the collar with double rows of topstitching.
7. The right side placket has a seam that holds 6 alternating buckles in place. The left side placket is the mirror image of the right with the alternating hardware on the inside facing. The plackets should be edge-stitched
8. The jacket has a mandarin collar approximately 1 – 1.5” in length and is edge stitched.
9. Jacket hardware consists of 6 sets of alternating double hook and eye closures similar in appearance to lift-off hinges. The “male” piece features two hooks facing outward. The “female” piece features two slots. Both pieces are approximately 1”- 1.25” inches long
10. The back of the jacket has a center seam and two seams curving from under the arms to the bottom of the jacket with double rows of topstitching on each
11. The bottom is hemmed with a single him approximately 1”-1.25” from the bottom. Extending from the front placket seams.
12. Resistance Emblem – Poe has an Alliance starbird shoulder sleeve insignia The insignia is circle approximately 3 – 3.25” in diameter. The insignia is a dark red printed or painted starbird design on a white/of white circle. The insignia should be weathered


Shirt
1. Natural, ecru, or very light tan color long-sleeved shirt with standing/Mandarin collar, worn tucked into the pants.
a. Front has a rectangular bib with seams on the bottom and both sides which continue down to bottom of hem.
b. The corners on the upper sides of the bib open diagonally, creating flaps when open.
c. Double rows of topstitching in each seam on the front-bib and placket.


Pants
1. Utility trousers
a. Poe’s utility trousers are brown and can have dark olive undertones. Pant color should be lighter than the jacket.
b. The trouser feature Patch utility pockets on either side that extend upward to form the belt loops
c. There should be no pockets in the back
d. There is a riding seam on the back of the pants which is recommended but not required.



Boots
1. The boots are a calf high black or brown dyed to black boot, featuring a Velcro strap at the top and a verticle zipper on the inside. Boots have a flat sole.
2. The screen worn boots are Po-Zu Well 2 boots, boots should be as close a match as possible if not the screen worn boots. Some Po-Zu boots have logos stamped on them. Every effort should be made to make that logo less pronounced.


Belt and holster.
Poe has a leather or leather-like belt and holster rig in a tan to British tan in color
1. Poe’s belt is approximately 1.75” in width with a rectangular buckle. Buckle measures approx. 2" x 3-1/4"
2. Poe’s Holster should hang from a single loop on the right side and drop to just above the knee.
3. The holster itself folds over the Glie-44 pistol from right to left.
4. The right side of the holster has a U-shaped cut-out at the front fold, resulting in two straps that extend across the face of the holster to the opposite side. The underfold extend above the upper fold by about ½” to ¾”
5. The holster is secured by a leg strap approximately ½ - ¾” in width. The leg strap is secured two overlapping strap keepers.
6. There upper part of the holster features three loops in tan to natural cotton canvas webbing with three “energy pellet” greeblies, just below the beltline.
7. Additionally, the remaining part of the holster “drop” is divided equally with three lines of white horizontal stitching.


Hair and facial hair:
the applicant should be clean shaven or "5 o'clock shadow" and have a similar hairstyle.






Many thanks to RL member CaptainTightpantsCosplay who is making this costume, has done extensive research, and his build thread can be found here:

http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90712

These are his observations and recommendations for the costume standard for this particular version of Poe.

The photos are below and shown as Figure A - the second one is Figure B that I cropped to try to get a better look at the elements.



Poe TLJ Costume breakdown

Jacket -
Poe wears a dark brown field jacket
1. Poe’s jacket appears to be constructed of either dark brown waxed or coated tightly woven cotton or an ultra-thin waxy leather or leather-like fabric.
a. If it is cotton it should have a sheen and some crispness
b. If it is leather, it should be thin enough to have crisp corners and flat seams.
2. The jacket length should fall to the point of the hip, or midway between the crotch and the belt. - Fig A. 1
3. The sleeves are cuffed just above the wrist and extend to the middle of the hand. – Fig A. B
4. The jacket has two pockets on either side of the chest with flaps and mitered corners at the bottom with double rows of topstitching on pockets and flaps. – Fig A. C
5. The front of the jacket features two seams on opposite sides of the pocket running the length of the front with double rows of topstitching – Fig A. D
6. There is a seam running diagonally across the shoulder of the front of the jacket from armpit to the collar with double rows of topstitching – Fig A. E
7. The right side placket has a seam that holds 6 alternating buckles in place. The left side placket is the mirror image of the right with the alternating hardware on the inside facing. The plackets should be edge-stitched – Fig A. F, Fig B. A
8. The jacket has a mandarin collar approximately 1 – 1.5” in length and is edge stitched. – Fig A. G
9. Jacket hardware consists of 6 sets of alternating double hook and eye closures similar in appearance to lift-off hinges
a. The “male” piece features two hooks facing outward . – Fig B. B
b. The “female” piece features two slots. – Fig. B A
c. Both pieces are approximately 1”- 1.25” inches long
10. The back of the jacket has a center seam and two seams curving from under the arms to the bottom of the jacket with double rows of topstitching on each
11. The bottom is hemmed with a single him approximately 1”-1.25” from the bottom. Extending from the front placket seams. – Fig A. H
12. Resistance Emblem – Poe has an Alliance starbird shoulder sleeve insignia – Fig A. I
a. The insignia is circle approximately 3 – 3.25” in diameter.
b. The insignia is a dark red printed or painted starbird design on a white/of white circle.
c. The insignia should be weathered


Shirt

1. Natural to light tan color long-sleeved shirt with standing/Mandarin collar, worn tucked into the pants.
a. Front has a rectangular bib with seams on the bottom and both sides which continue down to bottom of hem. – Fig B. C
b. The corners on the upper sides of the bib open diagonally, creating flaps when open. – Fig B. D
c. Double rows of topstitching in each seam on the front-bib and placket.


Pants
1. Utility trousers
a. Poe’s utility trousers are an Olive brown in color
b. The trouser feature Patch utility pockets on either side that extend upward to form the belt loops – Fig B. E
c. The trousers also feature darts at the knees and reinforced knee-backs – Fig B. F, Fig A-J
d. Double rows of stitching of topstitching in each seam on the pockets and knee-backs– Fig B. F, Fig A-J


Boots
1. The boots are a calf high black or brown dyed to black boot, featuring a Velcro strap at the top and a verticle zipper on the inside. – Fig A-K
2. The screen worn boots are Po-Zu Well 2 boots, boots should be as close a match as possible if not the screen worn boots.


Belt and holster.
Poe has a leather or leather-like belt and holster rig in a tan to British tan in color
1. Poe’s belt is approximately 1.75” in width with a rectangular buckle. Buckle measures approx. 2" x 3-1/4"
2. Poe’s Holster should hang from a single loop on the right side and drop to just above the knee. Fig B. G
3. The holster itself folds over the Glie-44 pistol from right to left.
4. The right side of the holster has a U-shaped cut-out at the front fold, resulting in two straps that extend across the face of the holster to the opposite side. The underfold extend above the upper fold by about ½” to ¾” Fig B. H
5. The holster is secured by a leg strap approximately ½ - ¾” in width. The leg strap is secured two overlapping strap keepers. – Fig A-L
6. There upper part of the holster features three loops in tan to natural cotton canvas webbing with three “energy pellet” greeblies, just below the beltline. Fig B. I
7. Additionally, the remaining part of the holster “drop” is divided equally with three lines of white horizontal stitching. Fig B. J


To this I would add that for doing the face character, the applicant should be clean shaven or "5 o'clock shadow" and have a similar hairstyle.






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Last edited by Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte) on Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:17 pm; edited 4 times in total
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BroadSword (Marcus)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there an consensus on the Nerf Poe blaster being approvable? Logos and legal jargon removed and some vents dremelled out or darkened naturally.
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CaptainTightpantsCosplay ()
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure. But I will say, that in preparing my holster it matched my 3d print from 2 years ago almost exactly in size and details. I honestly feel that with logos removed, it would absolutely work. In fact, my plan is to do just that, because I like the light-up, pew pew action.

BroadSword wrote:
Is there an consensus on the Nerf Poe blaster being approvable? Logos and legal jargon removed and some vents dremelled out or darkened naturally.
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jeniwan (Jenna Hunt)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks like a really well-researched standard!

A couple of thoughts:

1) the TLJ Visual Dictionary refers to Poe's jacket as leather (I can't find a good screenshot of the page online, but can take one when I get home if you need a reference), so I think the jacket should be leather or leather-like, rather than waxed canvas.

2) There is a lot of very specific detail here about stitching, which is really helpful for construction notes but perhaps too difficult to judge. With the Cassian standard, I ended up using language like "Double rows of stitching (flat-felled or similar) in each seam is recommended." (i.e. make recommendations but not requirements about stitching.) This helps costumers know what to build, but means judges aren't stuck asking for a million detail photos of specific stitching, which isn't normally required unless it's very important to the design (e.g., top-stitching on Jyn's vest we need to see. The seams on Poe's pants? probably not.) I'd like to see these shifted to be recommendations rather than full-on requirements, for the sake of both the costumers and the LCJ team.
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CaptainTightpantsCosplay ()
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The VD also says that it is Runyip-leather, so seeing as it a fictional reference, I'm not sure we can say that it is determinative. Thus I think either material is fine, so long as it captures the look. There is a lot of leather that would absolutely not be suitable for the jacket construction as well. I think your notes about stitching being recommended are absolutely fair. However the double rows of stitching are clearly visible, so i would make it a "strong" recommendation.

Here is the reference

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CaptainTightpantsCosplay ()
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just caught this detail. I actually agree that it should not be a waxed canvas. I would stipulate that it would need to be a tightly woven waxed or coated cotton, like a plain weave tightly woven broadcloth. The box-weave of most canvas would be way too visible!

jeniwan wrote:
I think the jacket should be leather or leather-like, rather than waxed canvas.
.
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BroadSword (Marcus)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptainTightpantsCosplay wrote:
I just caught this detail. I actually agree that it should not be a waxed canvas. I would stipulate that it would need to be a tightly woven waxed or coated cotton, like a plain weave tightly woven broadcloth. The box-weave of most canvas would be way too visible!

jeniwan wrote:
I think the jacket should be leather or leather-like, rather than waxed canvas.
.


This may be a situation where cotton or leather is acceptable until such time that the screen used jacket material is positively identified. I lean towards the coated/wax cotton myself due to the thickness and the sheen of the jacket at this point. I draw my conclusions based on my experience with waxing cotton for Kylo Ren. It has a different sheen than leather.

That said... a thin distressed leather cannot be totally ruled out. I would say that the top stitching is easily identified in the Visual Dictionary and Vanity Fare pictures.
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CaptainTightpantsCosplay ()
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with this approach. I have found the same things re: waxed cotton that you outline above, but too, cannot fully discount the possibility that it is some kind of very, very, thin leather.

Why are the Poe costumes never on display?!


BroadSword wrote:
CaptainTightpantsCosplay wrote:
I just caught this detail. I actually agree that it should not be a waxed canvas. I would stipulate that it would need to be a tightly woven waxed or coated cotton, like a plain weave tightly woven broadcloth. The box-weave of most canvas would be way too visible!

jeniwan wrote:
I think the jacket should be leather or leather-like, rather than waxed canvas.
.


This may be a situation where cotton or leather is acceptable until such time that the screen used jacket material is positively identified. I lean towards the coated/wax cotton myself due to the thickness and the sheen of the jacket at this point. I draw my conclusions based on my experience with waxing cotton for Kylo Ren. It has a different sheen than leather.

That said... a thin distressed leather cannot be totally ruled out. I would say that the top stitching is easily identified in the Visual Dictionary and Vanity Fare pictures.
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could not find the Visual Dictionary locally so I had to order it on line and am still waiting for it.


I personally would be ok with either the leather or the waxed fabric as long as it is done well....
the waxed fabric can also be a vegan alternative...which we have done vegan alternatives in the past...
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LastMaxStanding ()



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptainTightpantsCosplay wrote:
I'm not sure. But I will say, that in preparing my holster it matched my 3d print from 2 years ago almost exactly in size and details. I honestly feel that with logos removed, it would absolutely work. In fact, my plan is to do just that, because I like the light-up, pew pew action.


Are you saying that the Nerf GLE 44 Blaster is the same size as an accurate 3D printed version? I'd been led to believe the Nerf is considerably bigger.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, I am saying it is about the same size as the one I had printed two years ago.

LastMaxStanding wrote:
CaptainTightpantsCosplay wrote:
I'm not sure. But I will say, that in preparing my holster it matched my 3d print from 2 years ago almost exactly in size and details. I honestly feel that with logos removed, it would absolutely work. In fact, my plan is to do just that, because I like the light-up, pew pew action.


Are you saying that the Nerf GLE 44 Blaster is the same size as an accurate 3D printed version? I'd been led to believe the Nerf is considerably bigger.
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LastMaxStanding ()



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptainTightpantsCosplay wrote:
I dunno, I am saying it is about the same size as the one I had printed two years ago.


Got it— thanks. BTW, your Poe costume is terrific! Thanks for doing all the hard work.
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CaptainTightpantsCosplay ()
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you! It was actually a pretty fun one to make.

LastMaxStanding wrote:
CaptainTightpantsCosplay wrote:
I dunno, I am saying it is about the same size as the one I had printed two years ago.


Got it— thanks. BTW, your Poe costume is terrific! Thanks for doing all the hard work.
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Schph Gochi (Phyllis Schulte)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to see the movie again yesterday and was focusing a lot on Poe's jacket...
how it moved and held shape....
I honestly felt it just did not seem like leather...
but..
again..
that is only an opinion...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I saw the picture in visual dictionary closer, it seems like it has some sort of weave that leathers can't have. It's definitely tighter weave than duck canvas, or any canvas.
I compared it to other home-waxed clothing and bags and it definitely matches with thinner(than most canvas but thicker than jersey) cotton fabric waxed after being sewn.
I'm quite sure that the jacket won't have those folds and movements seen in the movie if it was made out of leather.
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