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Intelligence Officers (Generic Operations Officer)
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instarlight (Anya)
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very much in favor of the proposed alterations that Rebellady.

My only thought on the proposal is to specify which laces that would need to be covered on the the boots, it looks to me as the flaps on the boots resemble either Jyn and Cassian in that it has the upper three/four grommets of the boots covered, although you have already mentioned our reference is not the best. In case anyone is not familiar with the R1 boots, I think it might be helpful to mention what style combat boot is preferable? I.e. the thinner sole boot with a style similar to the FRYE combat boots, the screen accurate, versus a Doc Martin style combat. There is always a lot of boot discussion, from what I have seen, in both the Jyn and Cassian groups respectively.

Regarding the jacket detailing and topstitching, I'm not sure if any of our images can prove that it is or is not there. Personally, I have researched a few R1 builds I am rather inclined to think that it is there.
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Merc_with_a_Bryar (Sam Falco)
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kristina, thank you, I try haha.

I see where you're coming from, and ill relent on the vests if I'm really the only one who thinks they should be permitted. My question is though: why would Cassian be given special treatment in-universe? He's clearly an average officer, so he should be a representation of what people in his field have at their disposal, shouldn't he? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just still have these questions, so I think it's worth discussing is all. Lol

As far as the other concerns raised about detailing goes:

when it comes to the jackets, I think because it's intended to be an active uniform, we can probably assume that most of the detailing is going to be similar, if not the same as Cassian's jacket, maybe with a few minor simplifications in design, for the sake of easier mass production in the real world of making a movie and clothing all the extras in an efficient way (certainly wouldn't be the first time we have seen that happening in a Star Wars movie... ahem... medal ceremony in ANH, Resistance base in TFA... LOL). The detailing we CAN see matches pretty closely thus far, but there are details such as the "action pleat" on the back that aren't featured in all the jackets, as can be seen on some of the references provided by myself and Kristina. Because it's a generic character, unless we can for sure see it, I don't think it should be a requirement, as it basically forces people to adhere to making a jacket as intricately as a face character, which is a bit unreasonable.

As for the boots, because the boot covers will conceal so much of them, I think any kind of leather combat boots that fit the style should be acceptable in this case, again because it's not a face character and we can't see small details to push it further. I also don't want to essentially make people make Cassian-quality boots for a background character, because that's a bit unreasonable.

Looking beyond the in-universe logic for a moment, the purpose of allowing people to make their own characters based off generic, unnamed background people, is so that members can make costumes that conform to our overall level of quality, without making them go to the extreme lengths required to make face characters like Cassian, Jyn etc. and allow them to express a little more creativity when it comes to backstory and a sense of identity in their costume. Face characters should ALWAYS be harder than support characters, so I think giving people more variety to choose from will be key. We do that with the Fleet troopers and other background troops all the time, so it's hardly a new concept haha.
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would add information of the type of collar that the shirt has.

I also suggest adding the second version of the belt buckle. Some wear the roll pin belt buckle but others seem to where the metal belt buckle with the three dots that Pao and some of the pathfinders wear.

I would change the type of boots to the ones that the pathfinders, general Draven and private Weems wear. The only two people that wear the boots with covered laces are Cassian Andor and Jyn Erso. They have their own CS.

I would also take out the vest and blaster riffle. The only people wearing vests and caring riffles them are Cassian Andor and the pathfinders. Both have their own CS.

I am not sure about a holster and blaster. It is very difficult to see who has own and who does not during the meeting/briefing. The others that can be seen on Yavin 4, do not have holsters and blasters.
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Merc_with_a_Bryar (Sam Falco)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm willing to take out the vests and rifles, because that seems to be the consensus, and everything else you said is reasonable, but I will die on this hill about the sidearms lol. I know Cassian is a face character, but he IS an officer and has a sidearm, Rebels and Battlefront both feature officers carrying sidearm blasters when they are in the field, so they definitely exist, and are carried, so that's two other sources, and there's no reason to prevent people from being able to carry them with the costume and ruin the fun.

As I said though, everything else you said seems fine, and I'll make those adjustments.
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not mind an optional blaster pistol and holster. I like wearing my DH-17 when I am RFT. Unfortunately, it cannot be worn at every event. I would suggest to not limiting the blaster to the version that Cassian Andor uses because I think the female without a rank badge is wearing a holster with a DH-17 but I cannot be 100 percent sure because we never have a clear view of it.
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Merc_with_a_Bryar (Sam Falco)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, I'll expand it to allow any era-appropriate sidearms carried by Alliance personnel.
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good to me. Unfortunately, it probably be one or two years before I can finish this costume :-( I will have to lose some weight before I buy the cargo pants and the belt with the roll pin buckle. Then I will have to sew the shirt and jacket. That will also take some time. I am planing on adding a cap and vest for scarif marine at a later time.
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RebelLady (Kristina Gundersen)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've updated the proposal to reflect the conversation. Changes are highlighted in red.

(Sam, it's challenging to have a cohesive conversation when it is split between two threads and you are going back and editing your previous posts. Sticking to one thread, highlighting changes in a different color, and quoting on a new post will make the discussion easier to follow. People also don't receive notifications when you edit a post to add a new thought, so the conversation is more likely to stall if you are changing posts rather than making new ones.)


Propose: Yavin Operations Officer, Rouge One

Jacket:
-Coyote Brown, Medium Brown or Olive Brown heavy canvas jacket.
-Sleeves have “blood stripe” detail (printed, suede, embroidered, or similar) from shoulder to cuff. Darker brown jackets have tan stripes, and lighter brown jackets have darker brown stripes.
-Jacket has a mandarin collar with 6 lines of topstitching on the collar.
-The waistband also has 6 lines of topstitching.

-There are left and right breast pockets, with a flap on the left-hand pocket only. Pocket should have no visible securing snaps or buttons.
-Screen-accurate top stitching and pockets on the front and “action pleat” on the back of the shoulders.
-Screen-accurate compad inset above the left breast pocket.

Optional: Contrasting front yoke.

Note: I made the jacket details consistent with the Cassian standard because Jenna made a very good point. I went back and looked closely at the pictures of the generics. On the pictures where the collar is in focus, the topstitching is visible. Topstitching is an easy addition that does not require taking pieces apart to add to existing garments- especially along waistbands and collars.



Pants:
-Khaki/Coyote Brown colored utility trousers.
-Pant ankles should be worn tucked into boots/boot toppers.

Optional: Cargo-style pockets along the outside of each leg, with top flap, and no visible closure buttons or snaps. Elastic cuffs at the ankles.

Shirt:
-Long sleeved, tan/beige shirt with a collar ending in two points.
-Front has a rectangular bib with seams on the bottom and both sides which (recommended) continue down to bottom of hem.
-Double rows of stitching (flat-felled or similar) in each seam is recommended.
-Optional back yoke.
-Worn tucked into the pants.

Belt:
PLCE belt in tan or olive. Belt closure should be roll pin-style or silver buckle with accurate greeblie.

Optional: silver screen-accurate “energy pellets” tucked into the loops on the belt.

Boots:
Option 1:
-Dark brown leather (or leather-like) lace-up combat boots with two matching flaps covering the laces.
-Bottom flap of boot has screen-accurate buckle. The buckle’s bail (wire piece) is attached with a loop of leather sewn into the flap. The ‘box’ parts of the buckle are black and the ‘wire’ parts are silver.
-No visible zippers, but discrete inside zippers are permitted.

(Screen used boots are Frye “Sutton Tall” boots)

Option 2:
-Chelsea-style boot in brown or black leather (can be suede).
-No visible laces.


Note: I think because the references are so poor for the boots, broader interpretation is a good thing, so I left the combat boot option in. I made the description for those boots consistent with those for Cassian and Jyn. Anya, the screen used boot is now noted. Patricia, I've added the Chelsea boot option.

Rank Badge:
Screen accurate rebel rank badge worn on the right side of jacket, just above breast pocket. Badge should reflect rank of the costumer's choice below General.

Optional:
Era-appropriate Alliance used sidearm and holster such as:
-A180 Pistol
-BlasTech DH-17
-BlasTech DL-44

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Merc_with_a_Bryar (Sam Falco)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies, I had seen it done that way in other Standards threads, but I can see how that would muddle things. I'll do it this way from here on in. As for the other thread, I had attempted to make a separate thread awhile back, but it was unnecessary later. I'll request it be deleted, to keep things in here.

Now then, off to read your changes!
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Last edited by Merc_with_a_Bryar (Sam Falco) on Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Merc_with_a_Bryar (Sam Falco)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(post reading) Seems great to me, you summed up the belt issue much better than I could have, it got a bit muddled in my head haha. And you're absolutely correct about the top-stitching, shouldn't be too difficult to add to any jacket that fits the description.

The only notes I have:

Are we sure about the action pleat? I know Cassian's jacket has it, but in some of the references, it looks like the other jackets don't seem to have that distinctive bulge his does.

Also, there is at least one officer in the briefing room that doesn't have a compad on his jacket, he has an empty rectangular patch (which, plus the way he's standing the whole scene, may be a reference to Kyle Katarn in Dark Forces, haha). Can the compad be optional?

Officer in question:


Kyle Katarn

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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know if the jackets have the action pleat on the back. It is too difficult to tell. Perhaps we should make that optional. Cassian is one of the main characters so there might be details on his costume that they did not use for background characters.

I think we need to add information about the color of the shirt and pants. I went through the screen caps again and again. The shirts have a color range that goes from tan to coyote or middle brown. The pants also have a larger color range as well. They go from tan, khaki, and coyote to chocolate brown.

RebelLady, I do not know if you realize it but you found a third type of belt buckle in that group photo that you posted. The major (#3), which holds the tablet and stands on Draven's left side, wears the same RFT belt that Draven has.


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Merc_with_a_Bryar (Sam Falco)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree about making the action pleat optional.

The color differences in the pants may just be the result of different lighting exposures in different shots, but as there's really no way to know for sure, I think we could add more colors if nobody has a problem with that.

As for the buckle, well spotted, I hadn't seen that either!
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know if the different colors of pants and shirts are due lighting, color contrast or are natural. I do not think the reason should matter. The only thing that matters is that we perceive them differently and due to that should permit a color range instead of one color. It will be almost impossible to find the exact color at a fabric store anyway. Also colors fade over time due to washing and exposure to sunlight. The colors of our costume will change over time no matter how well we take care of them.
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Merc_with_a_Bryar (Sam Falco)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally, I was agreeing with you! Laughing

I was saying we can make the addition you requested unless someone else had an objection, but yeah, I'm definitely in agreement with you on that.
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found evidence that the jackets of the supporting cast has the same pleat on the back as Cassian Andors jacket.



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