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A standard updated to new format: [rewrite] RFT - ANH
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riva wrote:
Always get surprised to spot something new on HD.
For the helmet, it's better to keep it there since this is the most iconic item on this role, you can get every thing else wrong but still recognizable for this role if you get the helmet right, but not the other way around. We can put the less noticeable features as optional to get more people involved. I doubt that if anyone will love to play this role if they don't like this iconic helmet.


I would be OK with keeping the helmet for humans characters if we at least create the "no helmet option" for aliens characters. We have canon evidence that not all RFTs in ANH wore helmets due to that we should not be as strict on the helmet policy as we were in the past.
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riva (Riva)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PArmstr wrote:
riva wrote:
Always get surprised to spot something new on HD.
For the helmet, it's better to keep it there since this is the most iconic item on this role, you can get every thing else wrong but still recognizable for this role if you get the helmet right, but not the other way around. We can put the less noticeable features as optional to get more people involved. I doubt that if anyone will love to play this role if they don't like this iconic helmet.


I would be OK with keeping the helmet for humans characters if we at least create the "no helmet option" for aliens characters. We have canon evidence that not all RFTs in ANH wore helmets due to that we should not be as strict on the helmet policy as we were in the past.

That could be an option, never seen an alien RFT before
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jthatcher (Jim Thatcher)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helmet requirement is going to stay as stated in the thread you referenced. If you want to go without the helmet at a con, be our guest, but you'll need it for approval.

Any more references on the belt holes, or just the one?
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jthatcher wrote:
Helmet requirement is going to stay as stated in the thread you referenced. If you want to go without the helmet at a con, be our guest, but you'll need it for approval.

Any more references on the belt holes, or just the one?


Is there a reason why we cannot at least approve alien characters without a helmet. We have canon proof that not all RFTs in ANH wore a helmet. We can clearly see two human RFTs running down the hall of the Tantive IV that do not wear a helmet. If we also consider the dead RFTs that lost their helmet while falling we have even more RFTs without a helmet. I know that the helmet is an iconic piece of the costume. That is one of the reasons why I try to wear my helmet for as long as possible before I get a headache but the headaches are the reason why I started making Rogue One costumes. Why do we want to deny R.A.I.D. alien RFTs if we do not have to?









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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps I should clarify my statement. The requirement for the helmet on the ANH RFT is going to stay as stated in the thread. If someone applies as an alien Battlefront 2 RFT, then it could be considered since its an entirely different costume.

The scope of this thread is the ANH RFT CS only.

I'm sorry your bucket hurts your head. You don't have to wear it at non-LFL events as long as your command staff is ok with it. It just needs to be there for approval.
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jthatcher wrote:
Perhaps I should clarify my statement. The requirement for the helmet on the ANH RFT is going to stay as stated in the thread. If someone applies as an alien Battlefront 2 RFT, then it could be considered since its an entirely different costume.

The scope of this thread is the ANH RFT CS only.


I understood your statement the first time. You are talking about the Battlefront 2 RFTs but I am talking about ANH RFTs. We have two living ANH RFTs that do not wear the helmet and a couple of dying or dead ANH RFT that do not wear helmets in ANH. I agreed with the statement in the Alien discussion at the time but now that I know that there were a couple of ANH RFTs that did not wear the helmet I changed my opinion. If we have canon proof we need to consider updating our old helmet policy.
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, I am not making this argument for myself. I am not planning on making an alien RFT. I only go to non-LFL events and my command staff would permit me to leave my helmet off if I have a headache. That is not the problem. I am also making Rogue One costumes without a helmet to solve my helmet problem/headache issue and still be able to wear a full costume.

I am making the argument because we have canon proof that there were ANH RFTs without helmets and that is what is important to me. We create screen accurate costumes and if there were RFTs without helmets we should also have RFTs without helmets if someone wants to portray that. If you would say that there was no alien ANH RFT and due to that fact they cannot be approved then I would understand that argument but I would not agree with it because RL also approves alien X-Wing pilots even though the only alien pilots of the OT were in ROTJ and they were not X-Wing pilots.
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riva (Riva)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jthatcher wrote:
Helmet requirement is going to stay as stated in the thread you referenced. If you want to go without the helmet at a con, be our guest, but you'll need it for approval.

Any more references on the belt holes, or just the one?


For the belt holes, there are some other shots but it's quite difficult to capture it clearly since it's in motion, it's easier to watch it at slow-mo to spot it.

But anyway, my suggestion is not defining whether there should be mandatory holes on the belt or how many should they be, and on the left or on the right, but just to remove the statement of "No holes or other decoration on the belt" (because from multiple scene you can see a snap/rivet on one side of the belt too).
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PArmstr (Patricia Armstrong-Krauss)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riva wrote:
jthatcher wrote:
Helmet requirement is going to stay as stated in the thread you referenced. If you want to go without the helmet at a con, be our guest, but you'll need it for approval.

Any more references on the belt holes, or just the one?


For the belt holes, there are some other shots but it's quite difficult to capture it clearly since it's in motion, it's easier to watch it at slow-mo to spot it.

But anyway, my suggestion is not defining whether there should be mandatory holes on the belt or how many should they be, and on the left or on the right, but just to remove the statement of "No holes or other decoration on the belt" (because from multiple scene you can see a snap/rivet on one side of the belt too).


I went through all my RFT screencaps from starwarsscreencaps.com and also watched the HD clip on Youtube a couple of times. It does not matter what I try, I cannot get another screen cap from more RFTs with extra belt holes.

How often does something have to appear on the screen to be considered for the CS? This question is important because I also could not find one RFT with a rank badge but that is part of the CS and has been for some time. I also was not able to find a RFT with an oval belt buckle. So were do the rank badge and oval belt buckle come from?

I found a couple of RFTs that seem to have no belt boxes. I found rectangle and octagon belt buckles. Hell, I found two living RFTs without helmets and a couple of dead RFT with no helmets, which will not be considered for the CS for some reason that I do not understand. I also found two dead RFT with a black belt, rectangle buckle, and no belt boxes. Black belts are also not part of the CS but oval belt buckles and rank badges that I could not find are part of the CS. That makes no sense to me. I think we should take out the rank badge and the oval belt buckle. We should change the "FORMAL REQUIREMENTS – Choose FOUR items" into choose three items to make up for the missing rank badge.

Black belt and rectangle buckle:





Rectangle buckle:





No belt boxes?



No helmets:

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riva (Riva)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PArmstr wrote:
riva wrote:
jthatcher wrote:
Helmet requirement is going to stay as stated in the thread you referenced. If you want to go without the helmet at a con, be our guest, but you'll need it for approval.

Any more references on the belt holes, or just the one?


For the belt holes, there are some other shots but it's quite difficult to capture it clearly since it's in motion, it's easier to watch it at slow-mo to spot it.

But anyway, my suggestion is not defining whether there should be mandatory holes on the belt or how many should they be, and on the left or on the right, but just to remove the statement of "No holes or other decoration on the belt" (because from multiple scene you can see a snap/rivet on one side of the belt too).


I went through all my RFT screencaps from starwarsscreencaps.com and also watched the HD clip on Youtube a couple of times. It does not matter what I try, I cannot get another screen cap from more RFTs with extra belt holes.

How often does something have to appear on the screen to be considered for the CS? This question is important because I also could not find one RFT with a rank badge but that is part of the CS and has been for some time. I also was not able to find a RFT with an oval belt buckle. So were do the rank badge and oval belt buckle come from?

I found a couple of RFTs that seem to have no belt boxes. I found rectangle and octagon belt buckles. Hell, I found two living RFTs without helmets and a couple of dead RFT with no helmets, which will not be considered for the CS for some reason that I do not understand. I also found two dead RFT with a black belt, rectangle buckle, and no belt boxes. Black belts are also not part of the CS but oval belt buckles and rank badges that I could not find are part of the CS. That makes no sense to me. I think we should take out the rank badge and the oval belt buckle. We should change the "FORMAL REQUIREMENTS – Choose FOUR items" into choose three items to make up for the missing rank badge.

Black belt and rectangle buckle:





Rectangle buckle:





No belt boxes?



No helmets:


I also agree that if no evidence can be found, it should not be included in CS(like the rank badge and oval buckle, you can only find them on Capt Antillis), that’s why I suggested remove the “ no holes” requirement from CS since there’s evidence to disprove it(to disprove something, you just need one evidence, that’s enough, no need for more)
For your helmet discussion, I have no comment for now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riva wrote:

I also agree that if no evidence can be found, it should not be included in CS(like the rank badge and oval buckle, you can only find them on Capt Antillis), that’s why I suggested remove the “ no holes” requirement from CS since there’s evidence to disprove it(to disprove something, you just need one evidence, that’s enough, no need for more)
For your helmet discussion, I have no comment for now.


I agree that the CS should be based on facts that have been proven through visible evidence. That is the reason that I have a problem with the strict policy that ANH RFTs have to wear helmets to get their costume approved. We have visual evidence that not all RFTs in ANH wore helmets. We have no visual proof that ANH RFTs wore rank badges or oval belt buckles but people can use those items to get their costume approved. To me it seems the CS is not based on facts but rather on personal preferences.

I am OK if we say that two living RFTs without a helmet are not enough to set a standard and due to the fact that the vast majority of RFTs wore helmets in ANH, all ANH RFTs need to wear a helmet to get approved. If we do that with the helmets, we also have to do that with other items to stay constant with our costume judging and ruling. That would mean no extra holes permitted in belts because we only know of one guy that has it for sure. No oval belt buckles and no rank badges because we have no visual proof of it at all. Most RFT in ANH have belt boxes and octagonal belt buckles so everybody should have those for approval. No rectangle belt buckles should be permitted because we only have two RFTs in ANH that have those with brown belts. I hope everybody sees where I am going with this. We cannot say yes to one thing but no to the other if they have the same basis.
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riva (Riva)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PArmstr wrote:
riva wrote:

I also agree that if no evidence can be found, it should not be included in CS(like the rank badge and oval buckle, you can only find them on Capt Antillis), that’s why I suggested remove the “ no holes” requirement from CS since there’s evidence to disprove it(to disprove something, you just need one evidence, that’s enough, no need for more)
For your helmet discussion, I have no comment for now.


I agree that the CS should be based on facts that have been proven through visible evidence. That is the reason that I have a problem with the strict policy that ANH RFTs have to wear helmets to get their costume approved. We have visual evidence that not all RFTs in ANH wore helmets. We have no visual proof that ANH RFTs wore rank badges or oval belt buckles but people can use those items to get their costume approved. To me it seems the CS is not based on facts but rather on personal preferences.

I am OK if we say that two living RFTs without a helmet are not enough to set a standard and due to the fact that the vast majority of RFTs wore helmets in ANH, all ANH RFTs need to wear a helmet to get approved. If we do that with the helmets, we also have to do that with other items to stay constant with our costume judging and ruling. That would mean no extra holes permitted in belts because we only know of one guy that has it for sure. No oval belt buckles and no rank badges because we have no visual proof of it at all. Most RFT in ANH have belt boxes and octagonal belt buckles so everybody should have those for approval. No rectangle belt buckles should be permitted because we only have two RFTs in ANH that have those with brown belts. I hope everybody sees where I am going with this. We cannot say yes to one thing but no to the other if they have the same basis.

I see your point of asking for standard consistency, so maybe we can treat it like DH17 blaster(put it optional but strongly recommended), after all, it’s still up to the judge to approve the individual cases.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

riva wrote:
PArmstr wrote:
riva wrote:

I also agree that if no evidence can be found, it should not be included in CS(like the rank badge and oval buckle, you can only find them on Capt Antillis), that’s why I suggested remove the “ no holes” requirement from CS since there’s evidence to disprove it(to disprove something, you just need one evidence, that’s enough, no need for more)
For your helmet discussion, I have no comment for now.


I agree that the CS should be based on facts that have been proven through visible evidence. That is the reason that I have a problem with the strict policy that ANH RFTs have to wear helmets to get their costume approved. We have visual evidence that not all RFTs in ANH wore helmets. We have no visual proof that ANH RFTs wore rank badges or oval belt buckles but people can use those items to get their costume approved. To me it seems the CS is not based on facts but rather on personal preferences.

I am OK if we say that two living RFTs without a helmet are not enough to set a standard and due to the fact that the vast majority of RFTs wore helmets in ANH, all ANH RFTs need to wear a helmet to get approved. If we do that with the helmets, we also have to do that with other items to stay constant with our costume judging and ruling. That would mean no extra holes permitted in belts because we only know of one guy that has it for sure. No oval belt buckles and no rank badges because we have no visual proof of it at all. Most RFT in ANH have belt boxes and octagonal belt buckles so everybody should have those for approval. No rectangle belt buckles should be permitted because we only have two RFTs in ANH that have those with brown belts. I hope everybody sees where I am going with this. We cannot say yes to one thing but no to the other if they have the same basis.

I see your point of asking for standard consistency, so maybe we can treat it like DH17 blaster(put it optional but strongly recommended), after all, it’s still up to the judge to approve the individual cases.

However if you think deeper, you’ll find the CS never says use the movies as the solid source. The CS are set by the legion’ committee and need to consider the best for the community. They can decide which item is more important than the others. Allowing oval buckle may give easier access to those who have other rebel costumes, and the public won’t even notice. But calling a cosplayer an RFT without a helmet may cause a lot of confusion. So it’s a lot of complications rather than treating the movie as Bible. We are human, sometimes we need human decision for the organization.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the belt, what if the wording is changed to "The belt is made of non-textured leather or leather-like material"? The wording is borrowed from the belt wording on IOC CRLs. It doesn't mention holes specifically as some IOC belt makers have adjustment holes and some do not.

After speaking to the judges and RAID Command, the requirement for some type of headgear will remain the same. We'd like to expand required headgear to include the "celebration cap". Info and references on that is in this thread: http://www.forum.rebellegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22303. The consensus is that going uncovered leaves the costume unrecognizable.

Updating OP with hat option. Note that the hat doesn't count towards the optional items, but is rather a substitute for the helmet.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the celebration scene, they were trying to fill the hall with bodies. NONE and I mean NONE of the costumes in that scene are anything like what they were in the rest of the movie. The powers that be long ago decided to pretend that scene didn't exist.
Using the arguments I've seen here, no pants should be tucked in and disco shoes should be approvable.


The guys without helmets show up later very dead, safety first. Cool
Maybe they're running to the locker room to get their buckets.

Unless it is the specific Celebration cap, the helmets will remain.
An unmodified tan ball cap will not be an approvable headgear item.

We started requiring the BDU pants because every brand,style, and color of cargo pant was being submitted. There was no way to get consistent colors.
Put several RFTs in one place. The colors are all over the spectrum even now.

Extra holes in the belt? No problem.I'll rant some more later
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